Green Spotted Puffer Question

[Lynden]

On a side note it's interesting how 'Marine/freshwater' seemed so sure that he was right, so sure as to insult me on a thread, but yet did not reply to my PM.

 

[Marine/Freshwater?]

On a side note it's interesting how 'Marine/freshwater' seemed so sure that he was right, so sure as to insult me on a thread, but yet did not reply to my PM.

Happy now I thought I replied but I guess I didn't. I am by no means insulting you. Puffers and morays can live together. But in a 55 gallon tank there is no way a GSP and and a Freshwater Moray will work. A 55 gallon is the minnimum for a Freshwater Moray. Ive kept 2 large saltwater puffers( 13 inch.) with my moray with no problems. Green Spotted Puffers and other so called "freshwater" puffers have territory issues. If a GSP feels threatened it can easily kill a moray. They are so toxic all the moray has to do is lick it. The moray can not defend itself. If you mix them both individuals get stressed. Morays are not very durable. Freshwater morays are succeptable to infections. A tipical saltwater moray in a perfect saltwater tank is a powerful fish, a freshwater moray at 1.008 is not. A freshwater moray can handle lower salinities but it can be more fragile in less than optimal.

 

[Fella]

It's incorrect to assume a moray would be able to "lick" (?!) a GSP and it would die. IIRC, The poison called tetraodoxin (sp?) in brackish/marine puffers and saxitoxin (sp?) in freshwater puffers is made via a process where the puffer eats a specific algae feeding family of molluscs. the process occurs internally. If you touch a GSP with your hands you will suffer no illness. I have had to rescue a large wild caught figure 8 puffer from the jaws of an allenbatrachus grunniens before now, and neither suffered any long term ill effects (although of course they were soon seperated).

It would not be present in puffers kept in home aquaria, provided they had been in captivity for a short time.

 

[Lynden]

Ive kept 2 large saltwater puffers( 13 inch.) with my moray with no problems. Green Spotted Puffers and other so called "freshwater" puffers have territory issues. If a GSP feels threatened it can easily kill a moray. They are so toxic all the moray has to do is lick it. The moray can not defend itself.

You've kept a smaller moray with two puffers over a foot long, that could not only easily kill, but fully eat, a smaller moray, and you accuse people that keep a moray with a three inch puffer as cruel? Arothron may be less aggressive than Tetraodon but wasn't your point in the first place that a spotted puffer could "tear a moray's face off"? Certainly large Arothron have a killing power many times that of smaller puffers?

Furthermore, I didn't mention this or any of the above in my PM, but my research on aquarium kept G. tile seems to indicate that it is the puffer who will be in danger of attack, not the other way around. Also that spotted puffers usually make a great tankmate for G. tile if the sizes are matched up.

Lastly, apparently what I said about them losing their toxicity in my PM is true.

 

[Marine/Freshwater?]

In case I was not clear my opinion was not neccesarily that puffers can never be kept will eels, it was that the person asking about thier puffers in this thread should not get a moray. I thought perhaps he/she may be mislead by an lfs employee. GSPs and Morays have nearly identical tank requirments, but tennis4you has a 55gallon tank. 55 gallons does not work for a Gymnothorax tile let alone a moray and 2 puffers. Please stop telling tennis4you otherwise. It may be an opption in the future. But as of right now it would be a death sentence for several great fish. At the moment tennis4you does not have the proper steup. Really everyone should stop cutting me down and actually focus on suggestions! A few damselfish would be great additions if tennis4you plans on raising their salinity to at least 1.010. I have had success with Seargent Mojars at 1.012. Also a few cheap fish to distract the puffers would be nice. Schooling fish do well. That way the puffers will concentrate on them rather than the more valuable fish.

 

[Lynden]

Gymnothorax tile can be kept in 55 gallons, I once kept three in a fifty five gallon but eventually had to move them because I fed them live fish and they began to become predatory. It is by no means a "death sentence".

I now have three in a 33 gallon, which by the way I wouldn't recommend normally but I have taken many precautions to keep the tank in line, and so far they have worked perfectly. Hopefully I will be setting up my larger tanks within a couple weeks, but the puffer, trigger and everything else in the 33 will still live together (in the bigger tank).

Lastly, if your logic is that they couldn't be kept simply because of the tiny risk that exists, then I guess we shouldn't be keeping any fish at all should we?

 

[eschaton]

If the OP wants a puffer, I'd suggest South American Puffers. Widely considered the only puffers acceptable for community tanks.

untrue

Umm...you care to go a bit further into your retort there? It doesn't help the OP if you don't say if you mean they aren't suitable, or if there is another species which is equally suitable.

 

[Marine/Freshwater?]

Lynden are you out of your mind 3 Gymnothorax tiles in a 33 gsllon! 1 moray can out grow that real quik. Stop torturing fish! Ive been told early on that fisrt morary tank was way to small. It was a thirty gallon. I upgraded to a 75 gallon. You dont deserve to keep morays if that is how you treat them. Let me guess you have that at a salinity less than 1.010 don't you. Did you add some sharp gravel on top of it? Do you use still feeder fish too? Wow you seem to do everything you can to kill your morays! Better yet why don't you convert them to freshwater while your ahead.


FISH HATER!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lynden]

Sigh, again with the insults. Those muraenids are in a reef tank, the water quality is nothing short of perfect, as are the fish's health. They are on a sandy bottom, with tons of rock and caves a-plenty, and get fed table shrimp. Really the treatment these fishes receive is nearly optimal; I posted details of the tank in the marine forum as well - with stress on the fact that it has been carefully set up and will be upgraded soon - though it does need some more corals (and some coralline...) in my opinion. The point being before you call someone a "fish hater" you'd better first look at exactly how well the "fish hater" cares for his fish.

Even still I don't really see the need to defend myself against you for reasons I will not get into... but the urge to post got to me I guess. Though I believe I may be starting to see why this forum is getting such a nasty rep... if people that keep their fish in a near optimal environment get flamed, just imagine what treament the people that keep their fish in a poor environment must get.

 

[Lateral Line]

I know nothing about puffers or morays etc., so cannot comment on the technical aspects of the thread. What I can see is some seriously out of order behaviour - which will STOP NOW or some involuntary cooling off periods will be forthcoming. No further warnings.

 

[DarkEntity]

If the OP wants a puffer, I'd suggest South American Puffers. Widely considered the only puffers acceptable for community tanks.

untrue

Umm...you care to go a bit further into your retort there? It doesn't help the OP if you don't say if you mean they aren't suitable, or if there is another species which is equally suitable.

SAP's may be the most placid of Puffers but they are still Puffers and becuase of that cannot be classed as "acceptable for community tanks" i know people who have them in community aquariums with no problems, but also have seen and heard of SAPs' destroying the fins and scales of other fish so as with all Puffers you would need to make your choice based on the actual Puffers temprement.

There is no guarentee they will play nice.

 

[Marine/Freshwater?]

if people that keep their fish in a near optimal environment get flamed, just imagine what treament the people that keep their fish in a poor environment must get.

Lynden you know better though. Ive read your replies and sometimes they are the only ones that are accurate. I feel very strongly that putting Green Spotted Puffers and Gymnothorax tile should not be mixed in small tanks. It puts fishes in uneccasary danger. Ohter species are work though. Ya I may be a little to careful, but it is because I am very apreciative of the morays that are sold. It is so sad that so many are being killed at petshops. Your tank sounds great howeverer I have a few suggestions. Firstly shrimp are not a good staple diet for Freshwater Morays. They need variation. My expierience has shown juist shrimp can make them fat and bloated. Freshwater Morays should be fed primarily fish. Try switching up your diet a bit. A little bit of this a little bit of that. Enrichment is fun for them. Try hiding treats in safe spots. They are fun to watch search for their meals. I would like every fish to be happy and healthy. Unfortunately I grew up with GSPs being sold to people who have no bussiness having them. My first fish was a GSP that I was informed by employee at (a common pet store that is "SMART") informed me that they were freshwater. I was heart broken to find out it was brackish. Now when I see either GSPs or morays being abused I do not buy form that store. Abusing morays spreads bad rep for morays. Green Morays are very dangerous when abused. I try to keep my fish from fearing my hands or aquarium nets. Scared morays either bite you or get depressed and stop eating. Abuse also includes aggressive tankmates. I can not stress enough how sensitive morays are. I refuse to go fishing with my dad and one of his freinds because he brought up a moray and when he cut it loose it was greeted by a dozen or so fish that tore it to shreds in front of me. It is most unpleasent to see a moray turn into a bloody mees because of nasty fish.

 

[Lynden]

Fair enough. I will try to get some marine baitfish and supplement their diet with that. I still think you should try to be a tad less abrasive/exaggerative. I also think that morays are capable of defending themselves in most conditions, though clearly this does not apply if they are "fed" to very large fish. They don't have twin sets of some of the most powerful jaws in the animal kingdom, plus tough, slippery skin, for nothing.

I found this article a short time after I got my second set of G. tile. May be useful if you haven't already read it.

 

[Marine/Freshwater?]

Actually it is pretty difficult to add fish to a moray's diet. Baitfish are not good either. Get frozen silversides at a petshop. I am luck enough that there is a freshwater silverside species at my local lake (Brook Silversides). Frozen bait is toxic! It often contains formaldehyde and other perservatives. My rule of thumb with fish is if it says "Not intended for human consumption" I won't feed it to my fish. I live on the coast so I try to make my own food. I have an old meat processor I use to mix my morays food. My moray loves it. Good luck with your morays.

 

[steelhealr]

Hi all...I'm now following this thread also. It is ok to voice a strong opinion about how you care for your fish. In fact, the material here is interesting to read. HOWEVER....as LL posted...keep the discussion to the fish/brackish/eels/puffers/etc. Avoid the adjectives towards members.

Thank you.

SH