Gourami Ph?

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Yanks15

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I have a community tank w/ guppies, black neons, and now only one (soon to be none) honey gouramis. My only water stat that is a concern to me is the pH-6.0 maybe lower because the color is not on the API chart. My KH is 1 so I know that my water will not sustain a good pH over time. The others don't seem to be having a problem but the gouramis are not making it. Is this pH too low for them? I love these guys and would like to replace them if they were only sick and not affected by the pH problem. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.


Update... lost #2. :( Not very happy :no:
 
Wow, that's really sad. I don't know what the pH range of Honey Gouramis is but I'd love to know...

~~waterdrop~~
 
A pH of 6 is far too low. Your major problem is that biological filtration proceeds best at pH 7.5 to 8, and below pH 6, stops altogether. So whatever else happens, you're going to have trouble maintaining good water quality. Now, when people keep fish at pH 5 or pH 6, as they sometimes need to (e.g., for chocolate gouramis) then expert fishkeepers at least forget about biological filtration and simply use zeolite. A bubble-up box filter stuffed with zeolite should last a week, and you can change the zeolite as often as required. Since it can be recharged -- up to a point, at least -- it is a cost effective way to maintain lightly stocked soft water tanks.

If this doesn't appeal, then you need to raise the carbonate hardness. Do that, and pH will follow. There's a recipe for making Rift Valley cichlid salt mix that's been about for years, and I have a copy on my web site. You won't need the full dose, and will probably find a half dose, or even a quarter dose, adequate. In other words, where it says one teaspoon or tablespoon, add one-half or one-quarter that amount.

What you're after is a pH around 7 (6.5-7.5 is fine) and a carbonate hardness of about 3 degrees KH or more. The general hardness should be around 10 degrees dH. for most community fish, but a little below or above will not make any difference.

As you should know, guppies need hard, basic water, and won't be happy if the pH is below 7 and the hardness is below 10 degrees dH. Tetras, gouramis and most catfish are less fussy, but often prefer water that isn't too hard, around pH 8, 20 degrees dH being about the maximum for most species to do well.

Make water chemistry changes slowly, ideally changing 20% of the water per 24 hours, taking time to thoroughly dissolve into each bucket of water all the chemicals needed before use.

Cheers, Neale
 
Yeah wd . You have similar water to me , don't you? Is there something you do to keep it stable around 7 pH?

Neale, I've read alot about that recipe and I'll give it a shot when I get the right stuff. I still need epsom salts. Do I need it or can I just use the baking soda and aq salt? I did a wc last night and added aq salt and tested 1 hour later and had 6.8 pH. The strange thing is that my goldfish tank is always between 6.8 and 7.2. I do wc on that only once a week, no salt added, and the pH holds pretty good. Both tanks have fake plants, air stone, and statues. Both tanks tested KH-1 GH 4. The only other difference is temp....GF- 74f Community- 80+f.

How about adding some limestone rock into the tank? Other rocks?
Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks.
 
Do I need it or can I just use the baking soda and aq salt?
Yes; the recipe is quite specific.* Epsom salt, baking powder, and marine salt mix. Aquarium salt could substitute marine salt mix in the short term, but once the box is empty, use proper salt as used in marine aquaria. The price differential, given the tiny amounts used, is negligible. Marine salt mix is a complicated mix of things, whereas aquarium salt is merely cooking salt, in a box. It has little to no value in fishkeeping beyond treating whitespot and a few other things; it's very "old school" and completely redundant in the modern hobby.
How about adding some limestone rock into the tank? Other rocks?
Won't work for long. Limestone buffers water because the acidity in the water reacts with the calcium carbonate in the limestone. The rate at which this occurs depends on the flow of water and the surface area of the limestone. Whereas crushed coral in an undergravel filter has a massive surface area and is exposed to a strong flow of water, a chunk of limestone rock has a small surface area and isn't exposed to much flow of water at all. Furthermore, once algae and bacteria cover the rock, it is isolated from the water, so can't react with the acidity. Hence, while limestone may buffer the water to a degree, over time the effect becomes less, and the rate at which it hardens new buckets of soft water added to the tank may be inadequate, and you find pH bouncing around between weekly water changes. Whenever limestone (i.e., as coral sand or crushed coral) is used to buffer hard water or marine tanks, it's incorporated in the filter somehow, whether an undergravel or in a canister filter.

Cheers, Neale

*Perhaps should explain; the Epsom salt provides the osmoregulation element, via general hardness, while the baking powder does the carbonate hardness side of things, and so steadies/raises pH.
 
Thanks Neale. I know I have read some other threads that you have tried to explain this process so I know you're quite up on it. I will try to get the epsom salts tonite and see if it helps.

Checked pH approx. 15hrs. later...is now 6.6 Should it have dropped that soon?
 
Hi Smoke, I have fish that like soft, acid water, which means no guppies. I make large 50-60% changes per week to bring in what little bit of KH our water has and to mildly bring the pH up a bit.

That said, I do have a large bag of crushed coral standing by, just waiting in case I ever decide to join the many others who live in the southeastern piedmont who have soft, acid water and put a mesh bag of it in my cannister filter. This has been pretty much the accepted thing I've seen most do, although Neale is correct that there will still be some bouncing involved with water changes. The rift recipe makes sense to me except its not clear what the optimal way to maintain it would be and whether that would then avoid bouncing like crushed coral might do.

~~waterdrop~~
 
I make large 50-60% changes per week to bring in what little bit of KH our water has and to mildly bring the pH up a bit.
This is the point with soft water. If carbonate hardness is a limited resource, you need to [a] use it up slowly (which means low stocking levels) and add more regularly (which means frequent water changes). Both these are classic approaches to keeping discus, for example.
The rift recipe makes sense to me except its not clear what the optimal way to maintain it would be and whether that would then avoid bouncing like crushed coral might do.
By increasing the carbonate hardness in the water, acidification between water changes progresses more slowly, so between water changes there should be little to no pH change at all. This assumes you do your regular 25% water changes each week, and that the tank isn't wildly overstocked, but for community tanks it should work very well. Where a steady pH is crucial, as in a Rift Valley tank, you'd usually have crushed coral in the aquarium as well, together with chunks of limestone. So there'd be a belt-and-braces approach that should prevent any problems.

Cheers, Neale
 
Unfortunately, I have been planning an african cichlid tank and I can see that comming to a halt. I'll probably do a large community tank 'cause I think keeping a tank w/ 8.0+ pH will be really hard to do. I'll start looking for fish that don't need higher pH. Until then, I just have to keep a close eye on this one. It really sucks 'cause I was really looking forward to the cichlid tank :sad: Oh well.

Any way..... how much mix should I start with if I do a 50% wc? Say my pH is 6.0-6.2. This is only a 10gal tank.

Thanks wd & neale.

ps. Wd, what are you keeping again?

Also neale, is it baking soda or baking powder? I know the difference but which one?
 
You can still keep african cichlids if you get a crushed coral or aragonite substrate to buffer your water. My brother does this and it works beautiful for him.
 

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