FREE to good homes Mbuna (Ice blue-Kenyi) South FL

[Fry Lady]

I have about 16 Ice Blue X Kenyi crossed babies.

Some will be ready to go in a few weeks. Looking for good homes to take some, I'd prefer to give them to people who know how to care for fish rather than leaving them off to a store.

These babies look like Kenyi in color, but have 6-7 vertical bars (from their mother) instead of 5 bars like true Kenyi.

They are very healthy and eating well. I have had 3 batches of fry spit but so far they are very pretty and blue. They have been raised on NLS pellets and Spirulina flake.

If you are local in South Florida- West Palm, Ft. Lauderdale I will be giving a few of them away to GOOD homes and keeping the rest.

They are a cross, but they are very attractive.

 

[freddyk]

I know you may not understand the reasons, and it isn't easy to explain them, but I urge you not to distribute your crosses, as cute as they may be - this type of practice causes a decline in quality and purity of the fish in the hobby, and shopping around and finding nothing but unpredictable hybrids is not very satisfying for dedicated aquarists, who find such behavior generally irresponsible.

I wish I were closer, I'd take them all just to keep them from going public. I hope you do the right thing.

Can a mod that happens by move this to the hybrids section... please!

 

[Fry Lady]

I can completely understand yours and others feeling about hybrids. Reason why I posted it here and I am willing to give them away FREE so they end up in the hands of people who KNOW exactly what they are.

If I have to keep them all then I will. Chances of me giving them up to a LFS is unlikely at this point because I'd prefer to keep them in their already nice and caring environment.

Again, hybridization can have it's benefits and I don't mind especially when you can get beautiful peacocks for our enjoyment with killer color as well as other variations of Mbuna.

 

[GirlinWayside]

too bad Im not close enough - Id take some.. I hope you find homes for them

 

[pica_nuttalli]

i've posted this previously in the hybrid section, but it feels worth repeating it.

some reasons that cross-breeding of any species is not recommended:

-- any instance of hybridization is a lost opportunity to breed pure-line fish and reduce the number of wild-caughts on the market (this is a huge factor of the population depletion of several Rift Lake Cichlid species and Endler's Livebearer.)

-- hybrids resulting from closely related species (such as dwarf and honey gourami) could easily resemble closely the parent fish and be sold as such. should these be somehow bred back into the parent fish, desirable characteristics such as small adult size or coloration would be impaired while undesirable characteristics such as infertility could be introduced to the line.

-- often hybrids do not carry full expression of genes carried by either parent species, being neither one thing nor the other. this situation applies to such crosses as platy & swordtail; a male platyxswordtail is likely to have a blunted or only partially formed sword. platies are prized for the roundness of their fins, while swordtails are prized for their long and highly defined swordtail. the hybrid exhibits neither of these qualities; its children (should a female unwittingly be bred back into either species) would be similarly lacking.

-- hybrid cichlids often display the worst possible combination of temperments resulting from the parent species. thus blood parrots can still be absolute terrors even with their tiny mouths and flowerhorns essentially must be kept in "solitary confinement".

-- new or simply less-popular types of hybrids are almost completely unpredictable, making it difficult to house them properly in the right size tank with compatible species. this is the reason that most serious aquarists refuse to purchase "Mixed African Cichlids" for their Rift Lake tanks. they've put in too much time and money to risk it by adding a rabid wolf that looks like a sheep.

-- responsible disposal of hybrid fry is often quite challenging. to responsibly dispose of hybrid fry, one needs to be certain that the fry are clearly presented as hybrids (not a parent species) and that any fry resulting from the first batch are also clearly presented as hybrids. that means that just dropping off a bag of platy-swordtails at the local LFS is out of the question. the most complicated factor of disposal is finding another person capable of responsibly disposing of fry that can also find yet another person capable of responsibly disposing of fry. a significant portion of serious aquarist are simply Not Interested in hybrid fish. the un-serious aquarist often cannot be trusted to take disposal of fry seriously. if breeding fertile hybrids, one is presented with quite the quandry!

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while i recognize that you seem aware of most of these issues, Fry Lady, there are many newbies to African cichlids who are not. they think of hybridization in terms of producing something "new" and "cool", not in terms of long-lasting repercussions. this seems a good opportunity to bring up the cons of hybridization; while it is everyone's personal choice on the issue, i personally feel that it is not a task to be undertaken lightly.

 

[Fry Lady]

Yes, well everyone can have their 'pro's and con's about it. And the funny thing is, alot of serious aquarists DO in fact have fish in their tanks that are NOT something you'd find in the Lakes. For instance, the gorgeous Eureka Red or the oh so common Albino Socolofi.

I've read through the Lexicon of Cichlids heck my book is signed by Herbert Axelrod.

I guess you can say it's a fine line of living things with me. Yes they've reproduced and it wasn't planned yet they are living things in my tank.

They won't be destroyed and like I said, they will probably all stay here with me. I will separate the sexes as best to my ability.

It's just too bad that this sort of thing is shunned within the Industry, yet cross breeding isn't when Florida fish farms produce yet another one not found in the Lakes.

I am also a martyar when it comes to breeding dogs. Fish aren't dogs, and serious breeders only breed to the best knowing lineage. It's not like I'd ever pass these fish off for something else nor would I accept $ for them.

 

[pica_nuttalli]

i'm sorry, i did not mean to assert that you were a guilty party nor seriously offend you. but there have been threads on hybridization in this particular forum in the past that displayed a particularly juvenile attitude--an attitude more appropriate to fads than to living creatures like fish.

i fully appreciate your desire to provide the best home that you can for your fry now that they are here. i also respect your decision not to euthanize and i applaud your commitment to never "pass these fish off for something else nor would I accept $ for them".

i would just hate that someone less informed than yourself also engage in hybridization and then re-release those fry into common circulation among further ignorant fish-owners.

i don't intend to condemn you, i merely want to point out to any fish-keeping newbies reading this thread that hybridization is not reccomended and this is why. if you fully consider the ramifications of breeding hybrid fry and take precautions against them, then by all means, exercise your rights of free choice! just let it be an informed choice (which you sound like you have made)

 

[Fry Lady]

Well for the record, they are beautiful to me, they are very blue and very striking to look at. They are mine, and well they aren't going anywhere for along time.

I am the type of person to pick up a feeder guppy at the pet store and chuck in back into the feeder tank rather than see it suffer on the floor.

So you can see, they're my babies and they wouldn't go to a bad home.................and a LFS would be my last resort. This is why I would like to place them into trusted hands with people who know exactly what they are.

 

[Angel Lady]

I will take them, I will pay shipping on them just tell me how much it is and I will also send you extra, I want them very bad, I will be waiting to heat from you..

 

[BBB]

At the end of the day fish hybridize. If you insist on buyimg pure strain fish then only buy from a retailer that you respect. Hybrids can give as much pleasure as wild caughts.

All platies and swordtails on the market today are the product of hybridising anyway. This was done to set the colours in both fish and have been selectively bred to get the shapes of both back. so you'd all better stop buying livebearers right now if you don't agree with it.

 

[Fry Lady]

At the end of the day fish hybridize. If you insist on buyimg pure strain fish then only buy from a retailer that you respect. Hybrids can give as much pleasure as wild caughts.

All platies and swordtails on the market today are the product of hybridising anyway. This was done to set the colours in both fish and have been selectively bred to get the shapes of both back. so you'd all better stop buying livebearers right now if you don't agree with it.

[snapback]912575[/snapback]​

Yes this is true if you think of all of the varieties of mollies, platies, swordtails etc. Funny that some of the most stunning varieties of Africans such as the Eureka Red, German Red and the snow white Albino Socolofi ARE NOT found in the wild. They were all once hybrids, just as our purebred dogs all came from a mutitude of other breeds before they became 'purebreds' to their common breed profile today So I guess my purebred Sheltie is really a hybrid.

I live in Florida, MOST of the fish farms are all down here Ekwill being one of the largest producers of Aquarium fish today. And the FL Fish farmers who've produced alot of the newer strains of African Cichlids introduced at many of the shows of fish farmers within the trade.

I am sure I am not the first in tank encounter of Ice blue X Kenyi crosses. I am sure there is a heck of alot of cross breeding going on in the outside ponds these alot of these fish are raised in outdoors.

You can visit almost ANY water spot in Florida even to our dirty canals and you will find Cichlids in every body of water.



And just for the record: The Parrot cichlid aka Red Devil/Severum cross is a poor and pathetic looking specimen as is the 'balloon Molly' so what accidently crossed in my tank isn't so bad, they may have more black vertical bars, but they look like Kenyi!

 

[colen]

I love hybrids, actually more than half the fish in my cichlid tank are likely hybrids of some sort.

Take a look at my sig and tell me thats not a nice looking fish...

 

[Fry Lady]

More cichlids..............news to me an electric blue Dempsey must have originated by cross breeding what a shame for the creation of such a beautiful fish.

http/ekkwill.com/cicrel.html

If you all get a chance, look at the Lime and Lavender Parrots.


http/store1.yimg.com/I/ekkwill_1850_1453

 

[juanveldez]

More cichlids..............news to me an electric blue Dempsey must have originated by cross breeding what a shame for the creation of such a beautiful fish.

http/ekkwill.com/cicrel.html

If you all get a chance, look at the Lime and Lavender Parrots.


http/store1.yimg.com/I/ekkwill_1850_1453

[snapback]913050[/snapback]​

just going to throw this out there and then move this to the appropriate forum. the Blue Dempsey is not a cross breed
it is a line bred fish.

 

[Synirr]

They were all once hybrids, just as our purebred dogs all came from a mutitude of other breeds before they became 'purebreds' to their common breed profile today So I guess my purebred Sheltie is really a hybrid.

And just for the record: The Parrot cichlid aka Red Devil/Severum cross is a poor and pathetic looking specimen as is the 'balloon Molly' so what accidently crossed in my tank isn't so bad, they may have more black vertical bars, but they look like Kenyi!

[snapback]912619[/snapback]​

Just for the record, dogs come in different breeds... not species. This is like crossing two fish that are the same species but a different colour or finnage variety, not like crossing two different species, and does not qualify as hybridization

I think it's very noble of you to try to give your fry good homes even though they are accidental and hybrids; good show! I would never purposefully produce hybrids myself, but I do own one (tailless blood parrot x midas, most likely). She looks almost exactly like a tailless midas, and I adore her. She has such a wonderful personality
If I had any tanks suitable for your fish I'd be willing to take some, but alas, I don't. I encourage those who do to take some though... they still need good homes even if they are hybrids, right?