Fishless Cycle Question

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villafan82

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Hi,
 
I have been doing my first ever fishless cycle, using the guide provided on the forum here:
 
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
 
I just need to check something has not gone wrong..
 
The 60 litre tank is on it's 12th day of the cycle.
 
The Ammonia is at 1.5 ppm after the initial dose of 3ppm
 
The nitrite on day 12 is at 0.3mg/l
 
Shouldnt my nitrite be higher at this point?
 
FYI my ph is 8.0 and KH 3dh
 
Thanks
 
 
Once the mg/l reading is converted to ppm, it may well be at the expected level. I don't know the conversion though so I'll wait for someone that does know to come along :)
 
Villa, have you tested for nitrate? It sounds as though you may have some bacterial conversion, as I would expect to be seeing around 4ppm nitrite from 1.5ppm ammonia processed. Remember to test your tap water for nitrate to, to see what is "naturally" in your tank. It looks as though you'd be wanting to see around 10-15ppm higher in your tank than in your tapwater, if you have got some N-Bacs there.
 
If not, then I would say that the nitrite test didn't read properly.
 
BLF, ppm is the same thing as mg/l.
 
I'm really confused by the above haha,
 
i have today tested again.
 
The nitrite on day 14 is between somewhere <0.3mg/l and 0.3mg/l
 
Ammonia is at 1.5mg/l
 
As requested my tap water nitrate is 10 mg/l
 
The aquarium nitrate is also 10 mg/l
 
ph is 8.0
 
I am using a tetra master test kit (liquid not strips)
 
Apologies for measuring in mg/l but thats the way the kit measures, anyway i thought 1 mg/l = 1 ppm anyway?
 
Thanks for your help and advice
 
Also i just checked my KH reading and it is : 5 dh
 
Cycling is a process. As a result it helps to have as complete a record as possible of what was done and what the readings have been. Without more information is is difficult to look at numbers in isolation.
 
I would ask when you first detected nitrites. What have your test results been since you began the cycle? Also, you state your initial ammonia addition was to 3 ppm, did you test this or are you saying this based on the ammonia calculator amount?
 
Did you use anything from a cycled tank in your tank? Do you have any live plants?
 
Finally, testing error as well as defective kits are both possibilities. I agree that nitrite should likely have reached a higher number.
 
At this stage of the process testing for nitrate is a waste of time and money. About the only nitrate test one might want to perform is to determine if one's tap contains any nitrate.
 
Thanks TTA. To answer your questions:
 
The initial dose of Ammonia showed on the ammonia test as 3ppm (3 mg/l) following the use of the dosing calculator in your guide.
 
Nitrite was first detected on the 2nd regular sample at a level of 0.3 mg/l.
 
The below are all historical ammonia and nitrite samples taken following your guidance after the initial ammonia dose.
 
Nitrite:
 
Day 4 - (1st sample) <0.3 mg/l
Day 6 - 0.3 mg/l
Day 9 - 0.3 mg/l
Day 12 - 0.3 mg/l
Day 15 - 0.3 mg/l
 
Ammonia:
 
Day 4 - 3.0 mg/l
Day 6 - 3.0 mg/l
Day 9 - 1.5 mg/l
Day 12 - 1.5 mg/l
Day 15 - 1.5 mg/l
 
Ph throughout has stayed at 7.5-8.0
 
Carbon Hardness (KH) is at 3dh
 
Hope this helps you tell me if i have gone wrong!
 
Ok so i have passed th a"maintenance feeding" part of the cycle. The tank dealt with that 1/3 dose within 24 hours and ammonia i s now <0.25ppm. The nitrite is now off the scale. If i am understanding TTA'S giude correctly it is now just a matter of waiting for the nitrite to drop.
 
As i am now away for 1 week, do i just leave the tank and wait for the level to drop, or do i need to dose ammonia again?
 
I am sorry villa, you did not follow the directions.
 
There is supposed to be a 2nd full ammonia dose done when ammonia drops to .75 ppm or less and nitrite rises to over 2 ppm which comes before the snack is needed. But your results look fishy. 1 ppm of ammonia gets converted to about 2.5 ppm of nitrite. The nitrite bacteria do not start to increase until nitrite has risen. You say ammonia did not drop until after day 6 and by day 9 it was down by half. That means you should have been reading close to 5 ppm of nitrite, and for sure over 2 ppm, on day 9.
 
And then, how can there be any nitrite on day 6 if no ammonia has been converted yet? This is not possible. There is something wrong with your test results either from a bad kit, a mistake in testing or the ever present color interpretation issues. They report results that don't happen.
 
What test kit are you using and how old are they? You never answer this either: Did you use anything from a cycled tank in your tank? Do you have any live plants?
 
The best I can come up with is making sure your test stuff is OK and you are doing the the tests right. Then what ammonia are you using, what else is in the tank and what dechlor are you using. Something is causing impossible readings and you need to know what to get things on track or even to know where they stand.
 
For example, you posted above "The tank dealt with that 1/3 dose within 24 hours and ammonia i s now <0.25ppm." If the tank dealt with a 1/3 dose in 24 houtrs ammonia tests at 0 and nitrite also tests at 0. Neither of these happened.
 
But for sure you are not on the schedule in the article. It is dose ammonia to 3 ppm and wait for test results which show ammonia dropping and nitrite rising, then dose that same 3 ppm amount a gain and wait for the test numbers to hit the specified targets.  It is in the second waiting period that ammonia drops to 0 and nitrite is still up there that you feed the snack dose. After that you are again waiting to hit targets which is basically very low or no ammonia and nitrite and you doe another fulls ammonis dose. Now you want to have that go to 0/0 in under 24 hours. If if doesn't you wait for the numbers to drop and try it again with q 3 ppm dose.
 
 
Day 1   Set up your tank with the décor etc. Fill it with dechlorinated tap water and add the filter and heater. Turn everything on and wait for the tank temperature to reach the desired 75 - 85 F range. Make sure the tank runs for at least a couple of hours no matter what. You should already know the parameters of your tap water and that they are in a proper range for cycling.
 
Add the initial dose of ammonia. This should be an amount that produces a test kit reading of 3.0 ppm (1 ppm = 1 mg/l). Because of possible testing and experience issues, we strongly advise that fish keepers new to cycling do not exceed 3 ppm of ammonia. Too much ammonia and/or dosing too often will usually work against the process rather than helping it. You can use the dosing calculator found here Ammonia Calculatorhttp://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm to determine the initial amount for a tank your size which should produce the recommended 3 ppm level. (Please read the Suggestions and Trouble Shooting section below on how to calculate the volume of your tank.)
 
Record the actual amount of ammonia you add for the initial full dose as it will serve as the base amount for calculating a later maintenance addition. To be sure the ammonia has time to circulate in the water, wait about 30 minutes after adding it to test the level in your tank to confirm it is 3 ppm.
 
Now comes the hard part- you need to be patient as mostly what you will be doing is waiting and testing and waiting some more.
 
Days 2 and 3    Do nothing.
 
Day 4                Test for ammonia and nitrite.
 
Days 5 and 6    Do nothing.
 
Day 7               Test for ammonia and nitrite.
 
Continue testing every 3 days (Days 10, 13 etc). 
 
If at any time you test and ammonia is under .75 ppm and nitrite is clearly over 2 ppm, it is time to add more ammonia. Add the same full amount as you did the first time. Now, begin to test the ammonia and nitrite levels every other day. (You should be seeing nitrate soon if you have the kit.)
 
After the second ammonia addition, while waiting for nitrite to rise, peak and drop, the bacteria will need a maintenance feeding. When you get two consecutive ammonia readings of 0 ppm, give the bacteria a “snack” by adding 1/3 of the full amount. This “snack” should be needed somewhere between days 21 and 27 of the cycle.
 
After the maintenance feeding, whenever you test and ammonia is .25 ppm or lower and nitrite is clearly under 1 ppm, it is time to add a full ammonia dose again and test in 24 hours.
If ammonia and nitrite both read 0 ppm, you are cycled. Do a large water change, be sure the water is the proper temperature, and add fish. The odds are this will not be the case quite this soon.
 
If ammonia and nitrite do not both read zero, continue to test daily. Whenever ammonia is again at .25 ppm or less and nitrite is clearly under 1 ppm, add the full amount of ammonia and test in 24 hours. Follow this pattern of testing and adding until both tests read 0 ppm. The cycle should not take much longer to be completed.
 
I think the only way to get control of things may be a massive water change. Then a retest of all params and then the addition of enough ammonia to get it to 3 ppm. if you have any ammonia when you test after the big water change, you need to reduce your dosing level on the ammonia calc by that amout. I f the ammonia test after the water change is .25 ppm, then calculate the dose for 2.75 ppm 3. Of if you test ammonia at .5 ppm then the addition is to 2.5 ppm. If the test is 0 ammonia, the the calc is for the full 3 ppm.
 
After doing this test daily and report the results in the thread.
 
Hi TTA, not sure where the confusion is. I have followed the guide on that the following happened.
 
1 - My initial ammonia dose (calculated using the ammonia calculator) resulted in a 3ppm ammonia reading using my in date Tetra master kit
 
2- As per instructions, eventually my ammonia readings became <.75ppm and my nitrite was clearly >2ppm.
 
3- following step 2, as per instructions i dosed again the same amount of ammonia as the initial dose.
 
4- following this i checked for ammonia to drop to zero twice as requested. One this happened i undertook the 1/3 of initial ammonia dose: maintenance feeding.
 
5- This is the stage i am now at.
 
6- ammonia is at 0.25 ppm. Nitrite is off the chart of my test kit ( eg >3.0-30.0ppm)
 
My understanding is that now i am just waiting for: ammonia to be  .25 ppm or lower and nitrite to be clearly under 1 ppm
 
 
FYI PH has stayed at 7.5-8.0 throughout. I had correctly dosed the water initially with tetra dechlor to the correct dosage for the tank. I have no plants, and i have not used an mature media from another tank,as i have no access to any. The ammonia is one of those fro the approved list for the UK 9.5 w/w (Boots brand) with no additional additives.
 
I think i have caused confusion because my test kit does not identify nitrite as a "0" the lowest it states is 0.3.
 
Basically i am confident i have followed your guide, and taken the right steps at the right times using your levels as my triggers to take the right actions.
 
My question now is how does my very high nitrite level, now lower itself, will it just naturally drop off towards zero like i need it too?
 
OK- you never included a lot of this info in your posts. You should be in the 4th week of your cycle now or starting the 5th? Are you using a Tetra test strip kit? If so I have no clue what or how it works, They say it isn't a Salycilate or Nessler based test and they wont reveal what it is. I can not say how it works, if its accurate, what can mess it up. I do know I wrote the article for using a salicylate kit as used by API and others. Tetra strips are not that sort of test.
 
According to what I can find online at the Tetra site, their nitrite kit has a maximum reading of 10 ppm, not 30 as you posted above.
 
Given all the additional information you have provided, nitrite should not be off the scale and if it is, it is dropping pretty fast and should be under 10 ppm very soon. Again the math can help here. Each ppm of ammonia that gets converted produces 2.5 ppm or so of nitrite. But as nitrite builds up, the nitrite bacteria begin to multiply. So even as the ammonia drops, producing more nitrite, some of that nitrite gets converted. As time passes there are more and more nitrite bacs.
 
I still mistrust the test results. Since you dosed for 3 ppm of ammonia and then tested for that, it inclines me to think the ammonia test may not be that bad. That leaves the nitrite one. And I am back to what you reported, 1.5 ppm of ammonia left between day 6 and 9 the expected close to 3.75 ppm or anything even close to that did not appear. Without seeding or live plants, this really should not happen. So I am still leery re the nitrite tests.
 
Now that you have provided the complete picture, it is clear you are correct about where you are in the process. If you do not see nitrite coming down fairly fast and very soon on the Tetra kit, go out and get an API nitrite test kit and double check with that. I hate to think that just to test nitrite you have to waste the other 4 tests on the strip :(
 
One last observation, if you had 0 nitrite oxidizing bacteria in a tank, the total of 7 ppm of ammonia you added should produce a maximum of about 17.5 ppm of nitrite. However, there are nitrite bacs in cycling tanks so nitrite will never get that high. The method was designed to avoid allowing nitrite to get over 15 ppm unless one overdosed ammonia by more than 1 ppm for the first 2 doses. Nitrite levels of 16.5 on these kits are where nitrite begins to inhibit the cycle and to harm bacteria.
 
 
 

 
 
TTA Just a quick note to say thanks for the advice, 35 days into my cycle and i am almost done. Ammonia is at 0 after full dose of 24 hours. nitrite is at 0.3 ppm after 24 hours following the ammonia dose, so nearly there. I hope it is done in a day or two as i have to leave the country permanently then, and my father wont understand how to complete the testing process lol!
 

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