Electric Blue Ram help! Fighting or pairing?

[scotty027]

Hello,ive recently picked up a pair Electric Blue Rams. I asked for male and female, but i dont think he knew what he was doing, and im having a really hard time telling as well.
Anyway, since day one they have been doing this little dance 2 or 3 times a day where they circle around each other nose to nose, sometimes bumping heads, or they will press their bodies together and look like they are chasing each others tails.Is it males fighting for territory? Or potentially a weird courtship ritual? If it is fighting is it something i need to worry about? It doesnt seem like they are doing damage but i dont want to stress them out.

 

[scotty027]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10158133647930305

 

[TekFish]

I'm not an expert, but it looks like territorial aggression. Someone may correct me, as I said, I haven't kept this specific species before, but it looks too nippy and darting for courtship.

 

[Byron]

I would suggest those are both male, but having said that, it is possible to see aggressive behaviour between male/female if they do not accept each other and bond. I had this with my Bolivian Rams. But as best as I can tell from the fins, both appear to be male.

Obtaining a "pair" is not easy, and in store tanks it is next to impossible to ascertain gender simply from colour or appearance. You have to observe the fish's interactions. Males will behave much as you see these in the video, basically, with "charging" one another. Often this is as far as it gets in store tanks because there are so many of the species the aggression never gets much past the initial "get out of my space" charge or butting. The "chargers" are most likely males. Around them you will see the females, not engaging in this behaviour, and once you spot the males, look for females that the male tolerates close to him. After about 15-20 minutes of motionless observation I can usually spot likely "pairs."

The other method is to acquire a group and place them in a tank and let them pair off in the above manner. Problem then is that you have several fish to dispose of by re-homing if you haven't lots of tank space. I would do the observation in the store and see how it goes.

So here, returning one of these is not the answer (assuming you want a pair). Return both, and observe interactions and find a possible pair. Of course, there is no guarantee that the fish will permanently bond; I have known rams "bond" for a couple spawnings, then the male decides he's fed up and the female is dead shortly thereafter. This happened with my Bolivian pair.

Byron.

 

[scotty027]

I would suggest those are both male, but having said that, it is possible to see aggressive behaviour between male/female if they do not accept each other and bond. I had this with my Bolivian Rams. But as best as I can tell from the fins, both appear to be male.

Obtaining a "pair" is not easy, and in store tanks it is next to impossible to ascertain gender simply from colour or appearance. You have to observe the fish's interactions. Males will behave much as you see these in the video, basically, with "charging" one another. Often this is as far as it gets in store tanks because there are so many of the species the aggression never gets much past the initial "get out of my space" charge or butting. The "chargers" are most likely males. Around them you will see the females, not engaging in this behaviour, and once you spot the males, look for females that the male tolerates close to him. After about 15-20 minutes of motionless observation I can usually spot likely "pairs."

The other method is to acquire a group and place them in a tank and let them pair off in the above manner. Problem then is that you have several fish to dispose of by re-homing if you haven't lots of tank space. I would do the observation in the store and see how it goes.

So here, returning one of these is not the answer (assuming you want a pair). Return both, and observe interactions and find a possible pair. Of course, there is no guarantee that the fish will permanently bond; I have known rams "bond" for a couple spawnings, then the male decides he's fed up and the female is dead shortly thereafter. This happened with my Bolivian pair.

Byron.

Ok so next question. I dont really want to rehome ( i get attached lol ) Im more concerned about their happiness than pairing. Will this behavior continue, or will they eventually settle down once territory is established? Its weird cause after their little sparing session they will swim away together and get along for hours before starting up again.

If i do end up rehoming, maybe i should get a Female German Blue, cause they are quiet easy to sex. Even if she doesn't pair with my existing male they would more likely get along right?

 

[Byron]

Ok so next question. I dont really want to rehome ( i get attached lol ) Im more concerned about their happiness than pairing. Will this behavior continue, or will they eventually settle down once territory is established? Its weird cause after their little sparing session they will swim away together and get along for hours before starting up again.

If i do end up rehoming, maybe i should get a Female German Blue, cause they are quiet easy to sex. Even if she doesn't pair with my existing male they would more likely get along right?

There is no guarantee. As for the present two rams, if I am correct that they are both males, they will continue this behaviour until one of them is likely dead. Males have a territory they decide, and it is their space. The larger the tank, the more likely they will establish their individual territories and keep each other out of it, and this could last the life of the fish. But even this is not certain. If they can see each other, they usually remain in a state of "on guard" so to speak. This is the fish's inherent behaviour and we cannot change it. Sometimes individual fish within the species are more or less "normal," this just happens. However, a weak fish, meaning a less aggressive male, placed in the very small confines of even a large aquarium, is almost certain to be hounded to death if the other male is normally dominant, normally meaning for the species.

As for getting a female, as I said previously, unless she is selected by the male, there is not much chance of them surviving for long. My pair of Bolivians spawned four times, though in hindsight I recall rather unusual interactions that I did not understand at the time but which would now tell me to separate them. After the fourth spawning, the male killed the female. And this was in a heavily planted 5-foot tank. I had found a beautiful female and introduced her to the male, without letting them choose each other, as I didn't fully understand this at the time. We cannot change how fish have evolved, much as we might like to.

Byron.

 

[scotty027]

There is no guarantee. As for the present two rams, if I am correct that they are both males, they will continue this behaviour until one of them is likely dead. Males have a territory they decide, and it is their space. The larger the tank, the more likely they will establish their individual territories and keep each other out of it, and this could last the life of the fish. But even this is not certain. If they can see each other, they usually remain in a state of "on guard" so to speak. This is the fish's inherent behaviour and we cannot change it. Sometimes individual fish within the species are more or less "normal," this just happens. However, a weak fish, meaning a less aggressive male, placed in the very small confines of even a large aquarium, is almost certain to be hounded to death if the other male is normally dominant, normally meaning for the species.

As for getting a female, as I said previously, unless she is selected by the male, there is not much chance of them surviving for long. My pair of Bolivians spawned four times, though in hindsight I recall rather unusual interactions that I did not understand at the time but which would now tell me to separate them. After the fourth spawning, the male killed the female. And this was in a heavily planted 5-foot tank. I had found a beautiful female and introduced her to the male, without letting them choose each other, as I didn't fully understand this at the time. We cannot change how fish have evolved, much as we might like to.

Byron.

Ok, Thanks for the advice

 

[hobby5]

What you see in the video is serious fighting. This can happen between same sex and between different sex if they are not paired. If they were the same sex they would fight till one wins or they would divide the tank into two territories. But from my experience they would never swim together without hassle. The stronger would always chase away the loser as soon as it is in sight or they would stay in their respective territories. This may only be different for the short feeding time. If they really swim together, this might indicate that you got a pair which didn't pair up yet.

From your video I don't dare to sex them at all, could also be two females.

The electric blue from of the GBR is very difficult to sex as all the relevant colors are gone and with the captive breeds fin shape is not reliable either. What is your tank size?

And btw you are mixing soft water with hard water fish in your tank, maybe you should rethink your stocking anyway.

 

[scotty027]

What you see in the video is serious fighting. This can happen between same sex and between different sex if they are not paired. If they were the same sex they would fight till one wins or they would divide the tank into two territories. But from my experience they would never swim together without hassle. The stronger would always chase away the loser as soon as it is in sight or they would stay in their respective territories. This may only be different for the short feeding time. If they really swim together, this might indicate that you got a pair which didn't pair up yet.

From your video I don't dare to sex them at all, could also be two females.

The electric blue from of the GBR is very difficult to sex as all the relevant colors are gone and with the captive breeds fin shape is not reliable either. What is your tank size?

And btw you are mixing soft water with hard water fish in your tank, maybe you should rethink your stocking anyway.

Yeah i thought it was strange as well. Like i said 2 or 3 times a day they will fight like that, but for the most part they are good together. Its a 46 gallon tank.