Dead Fish, Sick Fish And Wacky Parameters

[nitey4ever]

Tank size: 55 gallons
pH: 7.4 +/-
ammonia: 0.1
nitrite: 0.1
nitrate: 50+ ?
kH:
gH:
tank temp: 80 degrees

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
see list of inhabitants below
also, have had 2 brown ghost knife fish die in the last month or so, didn't notice anything wrong with them

Volume and Frequency of water changes:
approx. 20% weekly to bi-weekly with top-ups as needed for my sanity

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:
no filters in at the moment due to the addition of Quick Cure. but...aquarium salt (2 days ago; box says 1 tbsp per 5 gallons which would be 11 tbsp. that seemed like an awful lot, so 8 tbsp are in). Tetra-level dose of Quick Cure (2 days ago)

Tank inhabitants:
1 - three spot gourami (4 inches or so) with a history of incurable finrot
1 - black ghost knife fish (3.5 inches) seemingly on his last legs. Staying at the top of the water now, not swimming, slightly listing sideways. at least attempting to move around since water change (25% change half hour ago)
2 - siamese algae eaters (4 inches)
1 - pleco (I still have a pleco? lol I BARELY ever see it)
1 - black widow tetra (hardy little guy, lasts through every crisis in my tank)
4 - painted black skirt tetras (can't wait for them to die off, even 2 years later)
3 - yellow lab cichlids (one 3.5 inches, two 1.5 inches), noticed the big one 'glancing' tonight
2 - blue/blackish striped cichlids, not sure which kind (3.5 inches, one with faded colors, not eating, hiding behind filter, fins pulled in alot)
1 - brown with orange tints cichlid, not sure which kind (4 inches)
1 - baby cichlid, no idea who mama or papa is - he just appeared one day last week. about half inch long
2 - neon green puffers - one in severe distress: at surface (with top fin sticking right out of water), gasping, flipping fins faster than normal, stomach bulging, back bent at considerably more than the usual angle, won't eat, is able to swim to bottom but maybe difficult to do or chooses to stay at surface? appeared to be in slightly less stress after 20% water change, addition of salt and quick cure 2 days ago

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):
none

Exposure to chemicals:
none that I know of

I know I MUST get that nitrate level down, but not sure how, or why it's so high but everything else is normal. And I know it's ALWAYS an emergency when you first notice something's wrong. But any help is appreciated.

 

[nitey4ever]

After reading some of the other emergencies on here, I'll add some information in hopes of not needing to waste time by being asked later.

Feeding routine: 3 or 4 days, daily, then skip a day. Food is tropical flakes, sinking shrimp pellets, floating cichlid pellets, frozen blood worms and frozen krill I think (but I also have frozen mysis shrimp, cichlid delight, and brine shrimp)

Filter: um, whatever came with my tank package. The filter media I buy is Aqua-Tech EZ-Change filter cartidges for Aqua-Tech 20-40 & 30-60 power filters if that helps identify the filter itself.

I haven't seen any bloating in any fish except the puffer. I'm inclined to think the 2nd blue cichlid is my mama fish, hence the lack of eating and generally not great appearance. No sores, no funny feces, no finrot at the moment, no ich. Fairly recent appearance of brown algae. Tank has been setup since April, using 10 gallons of water from old location (I moved, brought some of the old water with me to help set up in new location). No cloudy water, filter is cleaned and scrubbed out (including impeller and impeller housing) anytime I notice a slowdown in water. My plants could stand a scrubbing (no soap of course), and I could stand to lose a good deal of substrate (recommended is quarter inch? I have about an inch...). When I clean my tank I have a python (not proper name, but chances are if you're helping me you'll know what I mean), so I do a pretty good job of cleaning the gravel.

Now, before I get the lecture about the different species I have in together, I am aware of that problem. I have spoken to my LFS about it, and once I get everything stabilized, pretty much everything except the cichlids will be going (they said I could keep my pleco and algae eaters).

Oh yeah, my puffer does sound reminiscent of NTD (please God, say it's not so), but I haven't seen any similar symptoms in any other fish.

Hmm, I can't think of anything else to update, but if you need clarification on anything, just let me know. Thanks!

 

[black angel]

As you have ammonia and nitrites showing how long has the tank been running?

If longer than 3 months then the filter is either too small to cope or theres too many fish which means the tank will never be right.
I would up water changes to twice a week at 40% for now and im not sure why you are adding the salt.
1 tablespoon per 5 gallons equates to 3 teaspoons per gallon but i think you are at two teaspoons per gallon which for most fish is way too much. The only fish that may like the salt is the africans.
Puffers are eitherbrackish or fresh and need a specialised diet.

I hope you get more input but I think you should get the knife fish into unsalted water, by doing the waaer changes and not adding the salt back in.

Im confused when you say you have a filter but in the first post you say theres no filtration? Is the filter running on the tank or not?

 

[TigerIssey]

Blackangel I think what niteyforever means is that he has took out the chemical (Perhaps carbon) fitration because he is dosing with meds.
I agree about upping the water changes that should syop ammonia and nitrites getting higher and hopefully dilute the nitrates.

Do you still have the 10g, could you transfer some fish out, as you are overstocked, the ammonia and nitrite will continue to cause problems if don't sort the cause. Algae is probably there due to excess nitrates, do you have any live plants?? if you don't have live plants, restrict you light for the algae. Carry on waterchanging and test water again. At least you have a plan for the other fish.

 

[black angel]

Ok thanks TigerIssey, so no carbon then, but it sounds like thers nowhere for bacteria to grow and if the filter cartridge is continually renewed then the tank will always be trying to cycle so that can cause sick fish.

You need filter media such as sponges and ceramic rings that onlt need washed out and placed back in again to keep the friendly bacteria.

Can you get a google image of your filter?

 

[nitey4ever]

The closest picture I could find (With limited time) is this: http/www.marineland.com/products/consume...guinfilters.asp

The largest one there is pretty close to mine, minus the bio-wheels.

I DID have bio filters in there, but I found even with cleaning them, I was getting absolutely no water turnover. I got barely a trickle out of the filters. So normally I have my packaged filter cartidges in, but no bio media. Due to medication right now, I do not have any filter media in, but the filters are still running.

With my water parameters, what I'm concerned about is that the ammonia is at a normal level, but my nitrates are through the roof. My test kit only charts up to 50, and my water might have been even pinker than that 50 reading. What is my best way to get nitrates down while everything is stabilizing? Just water changes?

And regarding the salt, I've been told that you should have aquarium salt in every tank, which I've never listened to until now. Even when I called the LFS the other day about this, the first thing he said was add salt. I really did think there's too much, but honestly...I was just following directions on the package. Also, I believe it is aquariumfish.net that lists 1 tbsp of salt per 5 gallons. (just a note, my LFS is not a petland or any other crappy store like that. it is an asian run aquarium store with probably around 500 tanks of fish. They specialize in more exotic like the arowanas. I've been to quite a few LFS (living in 2 major cities since I've had my tanks), and I've found this one to be very helpful and quite knowledgeable. I trust what they say (except when they tell me my cichlids are going to eat my 1.5 inch 'baby' cichlids).

Anyway, thank you for the help so far, and I look forward to any more input.

 

[MHunt]

If you have taken all you're filter medium out, you're not filtering the water, just moving it around! The substrate will hold some bacteria with the water movement, but not nearly enough to support the fish. Your tank is never going to stabalise with no filter medium.

Like black angel suggests, you need a foam filter medium in there, and maybe some ceramic rings or bio balls depending on the size of the filter. You're looking to filter the water mechanically and biologically at the moment. Chemical filtration in the form of carbon would remove the meds, but is an idea for when you finish the course to remove the meds from the tank. Filter foam on it's own should be enough as it will take the particles out of the water, and give somewhere for the bacteria to grow.

When the manual that came with you're filter tells you to change the medium every four weeks or so, they're just trying to get more money out of you. Filter foam might never need to be changed for the life of the filter or longer, just keep squeezing it out in the water from your water changes, never under the tap.

While the filter cycles you have two options, do regular water changes every day or so to dilute the harmful chemicals, or just let the tank get on with it and change the water less often. The second option is quicker, but more stressful to your fish.

I have never added salt to my aquarium even through my recent case of ICH, for the main reason the the majority of my fish wouldn't cope well with it.

Perhaps one of the more experienced fishkeepers can help me on this one, but isn't a bent spine like the one on your green puffer a symptom of fish tb?

 

[nitey4ever]

will check my water parameters again later, but looks to be clearing up. No fish have died (but my 3 inch cana snail died), my black ghost knife fish looks better, although not hiding like he usually does. Puffer appears to be on the mend. He's still quite bloated, and stays at the very top of the tank, but the bloating is going down and he doesn't tip on his side anymore when he stops flipping his fins. Not gasping anymore either.

All I've done in the last week is water changes. Haven't added any more salt or medication. So hopefully this thread will be useful to someone else that finds it. Thanks for the help folks.