Bristlenose, Panda Cory and Sterbai Cory have white patches on face and body

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Justcat12

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My fish have gotten some disease and
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I didnā€™t know what was going with my fish, I went to my local fish store and was told to use Pimafix and Melafix, because it was probably either bacterial or fungal. Iā€™ve been using this treatment since Saturday and the Bristlenose is looking better and the cories noses arenā€™t as fuzzy as they were before treatment.

Everyone is eating and behaving normally, but I donā€™t know what this is and if this is the right treatment.

I had three scissor tail Rasboras, but two of them disappeared and now I just have one left.

They live in a 30 gal tank with fake plants and I do regular 25% water changes as well as cleaning the gravel. I do right now have a bit more algae growing from Hikari mini algae wafers. Could that have caused this? Iā€™m trying to clean up the algae from the gravel. My fish were all fine before this algae issue.

The tank is 76 degrees, ammonia and nitrate are 0, PH is 7.6.

The tank is also shared with Spanish Ribbed Newts, but they have no problems with each other. My Bristlenose is 7 years old, the Sterbai is 8 years old and the Panda is 8 years old.

Please help me save my fish.
 

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Sorry that you're going through trouble with your fish. Perhaps some clearer, up close images would enable some forum members to better help? šŸ˜
 
The white stuff on the fish is excess mucous caused by something in the water irritating the fish. It can be poor water quality (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate), incorrect pH, plant fertiliser, medications/ chemicals or anything that stresses the fish.

Treatment is big (75%) daily water changes and gravel cleaning the substrate.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

If the fish develop cream, white or grey patches on the body (as opposed to a cream, white or grey film over their entire body) then they have an external protozoan infection like Costia, Chilodonella or Trichodina. Because the bristlenose is completely covered in white mucous, it is water quality related.
 
Did you tell your LFS you have the newts? Things like pimafix can have tea tree oil in them which is toxic to them. If you're going to use these treatments you'll need to move the newts out. I'd do large daily water changes, 70-80% for a week, and see what difference it makes to the cories. Also vacuum the gravel if that hasn't been done for a while.
 
Did you tell your LFS you have the newts? Things like pimafix can have tea tree oil in them which is toxic to them. If you're going to use these treatments you'll need to move the newts out. I'd do large daily water changes, 70-80% for a week, and see what difference it makes to the cories. Also vacuum the gravel if that hasn't been done for a while.
So this isnā€™t fungus?! My newts are in another tank, chilling and content as a newts can be. As for my Coryā€™s and Bristlenose, the Pimafix and Melafix started to work, but wasnā€™t strong enough, so the fish store I go to, told me to use Jungle Fungus Clear and the one Panda who was starting to get white on itā€™s nose the following morning it was gone, the other Panda and Sterba still have white on their noses, but itā€™s a lot less. The Sterba also developed a small white patch on its tail, that was gone. My Bristle, which had the thick white patch from the back of its dorsal to his tail, has shrunken so much. I started this treatment on Thursday. Should I just start the major water changes at this point?
 
Jungle Fungus Clear states that you have to leave the product in the tank for 96 hours, then do a 25% water change and re-dose if necessary.

This product is known to be rough on delicate plants and snails. So if you can get rid of it in one dose, it would be perfect.

But after that if there is remnant of the disease I would re dose the tank for a least another 48 hours.
 
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So this isnā€™t fungus?! My newts are in another tank, chilling and content as a newts can be. As for my Coryā€™s and Bristlenose, the Pimafix and Melafix started to work, but wasnā€™t strong enough, so the fish store I go to, told me to use Jungle Fungus Clear and the one Panda who was starting to get white on itā€™s nose the following morning it was gone, the other Panda and Sterba still have white on their noses, but itā€™s a lot less. The Sterba also developed a small white patch on its tail, that was gone. My Bristle, which had the thick white patch from the back of its dorsal to his tail, has shrunken so much. I started this treatment on Thursday. Should I just start the major water changes at this point?
 

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My other question about the 75% water change daily, how will that effect my last standing Scissor tail Rasabora? It lost all of its friends, I plan on getting its community once my tank is clear of this issue.
 
I would sugget that you should do some reading on Flavobacterium columnare aka columnaris. Alternate names for this problem may be called Saddleback disease or cotton mouth disease. These names come from the symtoms. Saddleback is a white patch at the base of the dorsal while mouth fungus should be obvious. You need to rule this disease out or, if you confirm this is the problem, it needs to be treated with antibiotics.

One quick note- columnaris comes in a variety of strains which differ in their virulence. Some strains kill before one even sees symptoms while milder strains can hang out for some time before they are fatal.

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I asked my fish person, by showing him pictures and he didnā€™t think so, plus they are doing so much better since I started the treatment on Thursday. The Bristlenoseā€™s white thick streak has actually shrunk since being on Fungal Clear. The one Panda that was starting to have the white on itā€™s nose is gone, the two Coryā€™s with the white on their noses are half what it was, my Sterba had a white patch on itā€™s tail, that disappeared. This morning I found Cory eggs from the Sterba and the other Cory cat. Today, I have to do the 25% water change and see what happens after 4 days.
 
The tank is 76 degrees, ammonia and nitrate 0

Are you mixing up nitrites and nitrAtes here?
What test kit are you using?

Can you please test again, and give us the numbers for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrAtes.

I'd be very surprised if nitrAtes were zero in an well established tank, unless it was very heavily planted and filtered and was lightly stocked with fish with a low bioload.

Your tank has fish like an 8 year old pleco, those have a high bioload, and I can only see fake plants, so even with large weekly changes, I'd expect to see some number high than zero for nitrAtes in a fully cycled, long established tank.

So need to know test kit, and numbers for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrAtes. Plus whether you have any live plants.
The tank is also shared with Spanish Ribbed Newts, but they have no problems with each other. My Bristlenose is 7 years old, the Sterbai is 8 years old and the Panda is 8 years old.


Can you give numbers for the full usual stocking, please?
How many newts?
How many of each species of cory?


It's great that the Bristlenose, A Sterbai and one of the Pandas have reached those ages! Suggests you're doing something right. :D
Have they always been in this same 30g?
How many years has the tank been set up for?
Were there any new additions in the tank stocking recently that could have introduced disease?
o regular 25% water changes as well as cleaning the gravel. I do right now have a bit more algae growing from Hikari mini algae wafers.
How often are the water changes Weekly? Monthly? We need specific info in order to be able to help, sorry for all the questions! But the answers will help me rule in or rule out potential issues or diseases. When you say algae growing on the Hikari wafers, do the fish leave the wafers and they go fuzzy?

Because uneaten food rotting in the substrate can both cause ammonia spikes, and also introduce nasty bacteria and fungus to establish themselves in the tank and substrate.


Cories nose around in the substrate for food, and while they can usually do that on gravel without too many problems, it's a different matter if the gravel is dirty and they are exposed to the bacteria and fungal spores growing and thriving in the gravel. I also see that at least two cories are mostly affected on their noses. Increasing my suspicion that this is a tank maintenance issue, and potentially easily rectified.
as well as cleaning the gravel. I do right now have a bit more algae growing from Hikari mini algae wafers. Could that have caused this? Iā€™m trying to clean up the algae from the gravel. My fish were all fine before this algae issue.
Yes, I believe that could be part of what caused this.
The tank is also shared with Spanish Ribbed Newts
How many?
These were my fish early this morning and the fish eggs I just noticed.

Please please, be assured that this isn't a criticism of you!! I absolutely just want to help.

I suspect that this an long established tank for years, has worked fine for years, and over time, mulm, bacteria, detritus worms, and many other micro-beasties establish themselves in the tank. Most are harmless, many are helpful! But some can be harmful. And especially likely to establish themselves in a long established tank with a lot of mulm and detritus at the bottom of the tank, is heavily fed to make sure all these bottom feeders and the newts get enough food, but a lot gets uneaten and works it's way down through the gravel. Then is stirred up by these bottom feeders trying to reach the food and being more closely exposed to these potentially nasty bacteria, funguses and pathogens by the nature of being close to and feeding on and digging into the substrate.

Long established tanks with only 25% water changes that are maybe not done as often as they used to be, and with a high bioload and no live plants, and likely to gradually build up higher and higher levels of nitrAtes. This doesn't cause visible issues for a long time, since it's not so toxic to fish at lower levels. And since it's only building gradually, fish will do their best to cope with it for as long as they can, it just stresses them if it's too high, for too long, and eventually hits a tipping point.

But the high stress lowers immune systems, and leaves them more vulnerable to other stresses, and to secondary infections. Harder for them to fight off bad bacteria or heal a wound and fight off fungal infections, if they're also stressed by high nitrates, and digging into dirty substrate.

These photos tell me a few things, and raise another question:

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Do you, @Justcat12 or anyone else like @Seisage @WhistlingBadger @Colin_T @DoubleDutch know what these are? They look like worms to me. maybe tubifex (do you feed the fish/newts tubifex worms?) or maybe a type a detritus worm. But says that the substrate needs more cleaning, and that there's an excess of rotting organic material that is causing an explosion in detritus worm populations, which is why they're reaching out of the substrate. Having detritus worms isn't harmful, they can even be beneficial, helping to break down that organic material and turn it into more harmless mulm. But they're usually hidden away in the substrate, so when they're climbing the glass or coming out of the substrate, it means there's been a population explosion in those worms, and the tank is being overfed, and/or under cleaned.

In this photo, the glass needs cleaning both inside and out. Remember that biofilm builds up inside the glass and makes it slimy. Generally harmless, and can provide food for some fish. But it's another thing that suggests not enough tank maintenance, and if there is a harmful pathogen, disease, bacteria, or fungus affecting the fish, then cleaning the glass and substrate, plus doing water changes with a gravel vac and thoroughly cleaning the tank and doing gradually increasing water changes, will reduce the amount of pathogens/bacteria/fungal spores/worm eggs etc in the tank. Then better chances the fish's immune system can fight off what pathogens etc remain.
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Below the line I added to this photo where the gravel meets the glass shows that you're not gravel vacc-ing that deeply. The brown and black build up under the gravel is mulm, dirt, and organic matter and waste. Some of this is harmless, but this is a lot, and too much of it again, harbours all those potential nasties.

I think gradually working on deep cleaning the gravel, a bit at a time and systematically during bi-weekly water changes, removing and replacing more water each time, will show incredible results. And do more for the health of your tank and fish than any bottle of snake oil or medication can do.
 
I took a look at what is in Jungle Fungus Clear:

"Jungle Fungus Clear - contains Nitrofurazone, Furazolidone, Potassium Dichromate."

"Nitrofurazone is effective against gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria. It is useful against many common fish diseases, especially effective against myxobacterial infections, fin and tail rot, dermal fungus, open sores, and vibrio anguillarum."

Aquaculture Pathophysiology

Volume I. Finfish Diseases
2022, Pages 367-377

Abstract

Flavobacteriosis is a group of three major diseases caused by members of the Flavobacteriaceae, mainly Flavobacterium branchiophilum, F. columnare, F. psychrophilum, and Tenacibaculum maritimum. Columnaris disease or infection (myxobacterial disease, saddleback, fin rot, and cotton wool disease) is caused by F. columnare (freshwater) and T. maritimum (marine water)...........
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B9780128122112000287

"Many expert fish keepers recommend a combination of nitrofurazone and kanamycin as the best treatment for an outbreak of columnaris."

"Furazolidone is used in the treatment of bacterial diseases in farmed fish."

So, the above ingrediets could be used to treat columnaris as well as fungus. Antibiotics are antibiotics whether in a medication labelled for fungus or in a medication used to treat columnaris.

The reason I suggested researching columnaris was so that you are aware of it as a possibility. Diagnosing fish diseases is often a real challenge. Ich is easy, fin rot is easy even flukes can be easy. But many other things leave us guessing. Diagnosing problems, and then finding th proper treatment, is one of the more difficult challenges we face in this hobby.
 
@AdoraBelle Dearheart
Those worms look exactly like my Californian black worms
Interesting! Hadn't heard of those before. Do you feed them to your fish? Or find them in your tank?

@TwoTankAmin what do you think of the worm things coming out of the substrate in the pic I highlighted in my post? Detritus worms of some kind? Maybe tubifex or those California blackworms....

I know that a variety of harmless worms can live in substrate. I panicked the first time I saw wriggling white detritus worms climbing my tank glass at the front where a bit of algae wafer had gone down between the glass and gravel so fish couldn't reach it. Learned they were detritus worms, needed to clean my gravel more often and more thoroughly, never saw them again but knew they'd otherwise live harmlessly in the substrate.

Then when I tore down a different tank years later, found some little red worms at the bottom and worried if they were a parasite, and took photos, but Colin assured they were just another kind of harmless detritus worm, not to panic.

But the fact they're reaching out of the substrate, plus the dirty gravel in next photo, makes me think under cleaned and overfed tank with bottom dwellers nosing into it, and with fungus on their noses...

Hope OP returns.
 

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