Breaking the biotope...

[hobby5]

The wish what great enough to misread it repeatedly

Your Central American fish should be happy with that water. To my understanding measuring pH in tap water is not very meaningful, as the value will often change in your tank later. Water suppliers often artificially change the pH to protect the pipes from corrosion. This will change again as soon as the water outgases.

 

[Wills]

Ah thats interesting - when I did the ph test on the tank it was a little lighter on the colour chart thank the tap water.

@Byron sorry to tag you but I was just wondering what your thoughts were on my test results? Would you say its what you would expect? Do you think my water will be stable after going through the filter that I linked earlier in the post?

thanks Wills

 

[Byron]

@Byron sorry to tag you but I was just wondering what your thoughts were on my test results? Would you say its what you would expect? Do you think my water will be stable after going through the filter that I linked earlier in the post?

Wills, From the data in the filter link there is nothing to suggest it will mess with GH/KH/pH. So presumably these will be what they are in your source water. BTW, if this is the API liquid test for GH/KH, hold the tube vertical over a pure white surface (a sheet of white paper works) to check the colour after adding each drop. The GH test will change from orange to green sometimes subtly, and that is the number; some people think you need to see a stronger change, but you don't. It is usually easier to see when you look down vertically over white.

I am still puzzled why the pH is so low (7.1) when the GH is so high. As was mentioned earlier, water authorities do sometimes add something to alter the pH, but this is usually to raise an acidic pH so it will not corrode pipes and appliances. My water has this. I have no idea what they would add to lower the pH, or why they would.

If the linked filter really does remove nitrates like they indicate, that is excellent. It is also good to read their advice that nitrates should always bee below 20 ppm for fish...good advice indeed.

 

[Wills]

Excellent thanks so much Byron I will order it now, they really do seem like a good product. I might start mentioning them to the local shops near me at £35 to fix such a big issue that my whole city and local county must encounter - it would be great if some of them started to stock them.

With the water tests I was doing it over a white piece of paper and I was thouroughly checking like you said. I did start to get a colour change a few drops before the figures I mentioned as the drop hit the water but when it was shaken it remained the original colour for each test. Then on the last drop there was a drastic change - I was starting to question if they were working haha!

Tomorrow I am rehoming 4 of my current 6 fish, I am going to keep hold of my two remaining Flag Tail Catfish for now as they are both at least 6 years old I had a much larger group which I think I got the first of in 2010, it took me a while to get my full group of 8 and all of them were adults when I got them none of them grew in the time I had them. One or two were sporting scars from their old homes. So I want to keep these rather than move them and they are doing reasonably well in my water, though I know it is not their ideal parameters.

Then on Sunday I am picking up a mixed group of 7 Cryptoheros Nanoluteus which is very exciting! The place I am getting them from has some Mexican Mollys in stock as well so I may come away with them.

From my research on the Nanoluteus people report that they do best with tank mates in there so I think the live bearers will do nicely and I am hoping the catfish will continue with a good quality of life as well - but I will monitor this closely.

Along with the Mexican Mollies I want to get some Montazuma Swordtails at some point and I am hoping to find a school of Tetras that will do in my water (which is proving difficult) and depending on how many of the Cryptoheros want to live together I am contemplating getting a Oscura Heterospila, which is a small Veija type that has the reputation of a peaceful nature. I would only keep a single of these as I wouldnt want to have them spawn in the tank.

Exciting times!

Wills

 

[Toney]

Ever eat a hotdog or bologna sandwich?

 

[Wills]

What do you mean?

 

[Toney]

A few nitrates isn't gonna kill you, hotdogs got them.

Worrying about them might...

It would be nice to have water out of the tap without nitrates. If it's good enough for us to eat or drink them, then it's good enough for the fish.

Drawing the line, a person can go overboard, this is supposed to be relaxing

 

[Wills]

Haha! I understand, some liquorice has ammonia in as well.

Like I said in the other thread, I just think this filter is so easy to use and will make a difference so I think its worth doing.

Wills

 

[Byron]

If it's good enough for us to eat or drink them, then it's good enough for the fish.

This is false. Copper for example at the level allowed in drinking water in North America is safe for humans but deadly to all fish in an aquarium. Same holds for chlorine.

Nitrates above 10 ppm in drinking water is known to cause birth defects when this water is consumed by pregnant women, and is considered a health risk for children; which is why there are limits in NA.

Fish physiology and mammal physiology is vastly different. What is in the water significantly affects fish more than other animals just drinking it.

Some citations from a paper published by Cornell University will debunk some of the myths.
https://psep.cce.cornell.edu/facts-slides-self/facts/nit-heef-grw85.aspx

Water with nitrate levels below the health standard usually supplies an almost negligible percentage of an adult's nitrate intake. Eighty to 90 percent of the nitrate most people consume comes from vegetables, but this is unlikely to cause health problems because very little of the nitrate in vegetables is converted to nitrite. Meat products account for less than 10 percent of nitrate in the diet, but 60 to 90 percent of the nitrite consumed. This is primarily because of sodium nitrite added to foods such as hot dogs, bacon, or ham. Fruits, grains, and dairy products contribute almost no nitrate or nitrite to people's diets.

Nitrate in drinking water is measured either in terms of the amount of nitrogen present or in terms of both nitrogen and oxygen. The federal standard for nitrate in drinking water is 10 milligrams per liter (10 mg/l) nitrate-N, or 45 mg/l nitrate-NO3. when the oxygen is measured as well as the nitrogen. Unless otherwise specified, nitrate levels usually refer only to the amount of nitrogen present, and the usual standard, therefore, is 10 mg/l.

Short-term exposure to drinking water with a nitrate level at or just above the health standard of 10 mg/l nitrate-N is a potential health problem primarily for infants. Babies consume large quantities of water relative to their body weight, especially if water is used to mix powdered or concentrated formulas or juices. Also, their immature digestive systems are more likely than adult digestive tracts to allow the reduction of nitrate to nitrite. In particular, the presence of nitrite in the digestive tract of newborns can lead to a disease called methemoglobinemia.

 

[hobby5]

...I am hoping to find a school of Tetras that will do in my water (which is proving difficult)...

Did you have a look at Hyphessobrycon anisitsi? They are not too plant friendly though.

Maybe the better choice would be Astyanax mexicanus.

 

[Wills]

Im not a big fan of Buenos Aires and the Astyanax are a bit the same for me. I really want to track down some Mayan Tetras but I think Im going to be happy if I stick with just live bearers.

Today I took some of my fish to a not so local LFS - I took them to one a bit of a drive away as I thought they stood the best chance of getting into a good tank there. In the end I have only rehomed by Uaru and my Geophagus Tapajo Red Head. I just couldnt catch my 2 Annostomus Ternetzi, me and my wife were chasing them round but we just stood no chance. In the past when we moved house I had to empty everything from the tank and make barriers to round them up, which I didnt really want to do. So with tempers getting fraught and the fish getting stressed I looked them up on SF (which I must have done years ago) and looking at that they will probably fit in with the new fish quite well, they are not from central america but they have a huge distribution a huge tollerance to temperatures (20c - 28c), my ph is good for them and their hardness range is really broad as well. Plus these 2 are 4 years old and I have kept a much bigger group for a long time, some of them were my first fish when I got a tank again in 2009 and I think I started to loose some of them in 2015 and lost the last of the originals at the start of 2017. The two get on quite well but I may assess if I add more as the tank develops.

I took a close look to my two Flagtail Catfish today as well and I realised that the two left are actually the eldest of all 8 I have ever had! The first one I found had no barbells (Ive always kept on sand) and this is one of the ones I still have. Again with these I will keep an eye on how they are with the new fish, if it is not looking like it will work long term I will either move them on or maybe look for a second tank... but we will see.

So tomorrow I am going to go and pick up my Cryptoheros Nanoluteus and some Mexican Mollies. I also want to try and find some Montazuma Swordtails as well but that will be in a while. I am also interested in an Oscura Heterospila but I will wait for this as I want to let the other fish settle down quite a bit first. I'll also assess what I should do with my headstanders and my elderly Flagtails as well - I dont think I should add more though as I dont want to end up with a few different ages of a fish only to loose the originals sooner when there would be other good canditates for the tank - or if it would be better to have less fish.

The first parts of my new water change kit arrived today, Ive got a hoselock fitting for my kitchen tap, a length of hose and then a 4 way splitter so I can filter 4 buckets at once (I change 160-200 litres a week using 4 x 40 litre buckets) I just need to wait for my actual nitrate filters which will arrive on Tuesday hopefully. I would have liked to have the filter here before the Nanos, but its not worked out like that and the Nanos are being kept in similar water to this tank anyway so for the short term (a few days) it should be fine. I will do a change the evening the nitrate filter arrives just to get things in the best condition.

Will let you know how it goes.

Wills

 

[Wills]

Bit of an update here (if anyone is still reading)

I got 7 Nanoluteus and 6 Mexican Mollies, all doing great, feeding well, active, good colours etc. The Nanos are so timid I'm really surprised! I've kept a few dwarf SAs before - Cupids and Nannacara and they are even more timid than them! No aggression in the group what so ever and they ignore all my other fish. It has only been a week though and I know how fast things can change with cichlids.

But currently I am unsure if adding an other cichlid to the tank is an option. My only other plans right now is to add a group of Montazuma Swordtails when I can find them. I've been looking on fishbase on the lists of other fish from places like Panama, Mexico and Costa Rica for potential tank mates. At the moment I want to find a species of Roeboides Tetra or if I can find them Mayan Tetras or Calypso Tetras or Tortugae Tetras as well.

Unfortunately I have thrown away an O ring for my new water change equipment where it attaches to the tap - I thought it was a piece of packaging but when I turned the water on I realised what it was... none of the water goes down the hose it just splashes at the top So just a water change without the new filter this week.

Those hoplos are from Paraguay not Panama I really recommend to leave out the catfish.

Its been driving me made for days but I realised I got it mixed up these are from Panama. https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=1048 I knew there was a small Hoplo recorded from Panama I just got them mixed up. That said most of the species of Hoplo have such a broad range of params that I think any would work ok in my water.

Wills

 

[Wills]

Thought I would share some pics of the fish These are from a few weeks ago, they have coloured up a bit more since.

I tried adding some floating plants but something ate their roots, I think it was the mexicanus they really attack any remnants of algae.

Wills