Bga Problem, Any Tips?

[Lunar Jetman]

I posted this in the wrong post for BBA, that is the problem with TLA's they can catch us out.  Anyway thought I would share where I am up to with the Blue Green Algae problem...
 

Posted Today, 08:20 AM
I have the same problem with a piece of driftwood covered in Java Fern.  I took it out for about a week, and dosed the BBA BGA with Hydrogen Peroxide daily with a syringe.  On putting it back in the aquarium it started to grow again!  I have also used a syringe to spot treat it in the aquarium during a WC, when the water level is below the BBA BGA. 
 
I then used an anti-algae treatment called "eSHa PROTALAN-707", which has a rather detailed treatment program.  I missed the fact that on Days 4 & 5 you DO NOT DOSE.  It initially killed it but now it is back again!  It does state that in extreme cases you may need to re-dose.  This time I have highlighted the fact not to dose on Days 4 & 5, so hopefully I will get a better more permanent result.
 
I guess like everything it is understanding why we are getting BBA BGA in the first place?  I have done some research and know it is not a true algae, but have yet to pin-point the reason for it, any scientists out there?
 
I also read that more movement in the aquarium can help, as I have a Betta in this tank it is a double whammy as > Watercurrent+Betta= Betta.  I did have a bubble wall going for awhile, but the pump no longer seems to be powerful enough, after I turned it off for a period when the Betta was sitting on the bottom, sulking.
 
The battle continues ...

 
Of course, I am learning from KCB what maybe the potential causes of BGA, any other thoughts welcome.

The problem with BGA is that it is not really an algae but is Cynobacteria so any anti algae treatments are pretty much ineffective. It's a bacteria so the most effective method to get rid of it initially is the blackout, then treating the symptoms.

You need to look at the flow rates in your tank and make sure there are no anaerobic/dead spots in your tank and think about your lighting levels.

Water changes will help along with physical removal but light levels should be reviewed too. If you get more plants this can help to keep it away as there won't be enough nutrients for it to flourish.

 

[RCA]

Thanks for that, I was aware it was a bacteria, but the product I got does state it will respond to the treatment, and it did on the first go but came back.
 
I currently have the spray bar going towards the back of the tank because of the Betta but what I will do is try it coming towards the piece of bog-wood in question and hope the Betta copes with it.  I am also planning a stronger air-pump to deal with the bubble wall I put in.  The Espeis love dancing in and out of this.
 
I have my lights on for four hours, off for one, on again for four.  I was advised having them off for one hour helps eliminate some algae forms!  I will reduce it to seven hours, or do you think even lower?
 
I have Java Fern, Anubias and am soon getting some floating plants from you know who

, so that should assist with the lighting hopefully.  There are a few other plants in there, Amazon Sword and Vallis, plus some oddments, but I will look out for some others and add to it.
 
Yesterday during the WC I removed the wood and treated it with Hydrogen Peroxide 3% and then scrubbed it with a toothbrush I keep for aquarium maintenance.
 
I will begin the treatment again later today, as I prefer not to do it on the day of a WC so the fish get chance to settle again.  Will keep you posted on progress and thanks all input to get rid of this is welcome
 
KCB - I hope it is OK to add to your Topic as we are experiencing the same problem, if not let me know and I can happily start another Topic

 

[Lunar Jetman]

I think I'd be inclined to have the lights on for 6-7 hours in one go, but thats maybe just me. I'm actually looking to get some blue moonlights which will allow me to watch the fish but not affect the plants/algae too much. I can then have the main lights on for 5-6 hours and a couple in blue.

 

[RCA]

Thanks Lunar Jetman I will be adjusting the lighting schedule as well as the treatment and will let you all know how it goes.
 
I got a new pump for the bubble wall yesterday so that has been on overnight and should assist with water movement.  It is quite a gentle movement but my Betta is in hiding at present underneath the bubble wall, hopefully he will get used to it, if not it will need to be turned off now and again.

 

[Lunar Jetman]

Just an update, my BGA is not growing back on the gravel very quickly at all now and has disappeared completely on the rocks, as well as seeming to be on the wane n the back of the tank.

As well as the flow and ferts increase I had already mentioned, I have reduced lighting to 6-7 hours and also did an increased dry dose of my ferts as a one off.

Still got my fingers crossed!

 

[snazy]

I would be curious, just because of some other info I read, if you have measured the phosphate levels? I know they don't cause algae and I am not implying that, but I came across some article saying that BGA is caused by a disbalance between nitrate and phosphate(rather high levels) or low nitrate, hence in both cases it may help if you increase the NO3. Obviously dead zones and lack of flow too could be an issue but I was just wondering if any of you happened to measure the nitrate and phosphate?

 

[RCA]

UPDATE from me too...
 

• I did a 50% WC, which lowered the water enough to be able to bombard the BGA on the bogwood (BW) with the Hydrogen Peroxide.  While I was maintaining the filter etc., I kept syringing the BGA constantly with the stuff.
• I then removed the BW and used a toothbrush to scrub the BGA from the top of the bogwood, yet again.
• I bought the new air-pump which as been running about a week now.  It is on full (as I found it quieter) and pumps 110 l/h, the tank volume is 30L
• I did NOT start the treatment again
• I left the spray bar directed at the back of the tank as the Betta was already "sulking" with the bubble wall!
• I changed the lighting to on at 16:30 off at 23:00, the tank is in my bedroom so I like to have the lights on later in the day
• Sometimes I would switch the lights off earlier, no particular pattern, just would decide I felt the fish were fed and it could go off earlier
• I added two new plants, a large Anubias to the bottom of the bogwood, and a small one on a rock sitting on top of the filter.
• I have been feeding once a day more often, though still twice a day occasionally.

Good News, it seems to have stopped growing

   I have a tiny bit of bright green BGA on the edge of the bogwood near some Java Fern that I intend to attack with the Hydrogen Peroxide at the next WC.  Lets hope it stays this way ...

 

[Lunar Jetman]

Good news RCA! Fingers crossed you've broken the back of it!

 

[RCA]

Thanks and good luck with yours, sounds promising too.

 for your advice and assistance earlier on too.

 

[Mamashack]

Oh dear! It looks like I have this problem in my main tank - I also think I know what caused it - I sometime forget to turn the tank light off when I go to work which means it is on for much longer than advisable. The "algae" seems to be hanging in veils on the cabomba and egeria mostly rather than the anubia or java fern.
I don't have a PO4 test and wouldn't know what the results meant if I had.
I've had lights out for the past 24 hrs altho not a black out and have tried to physically remove the "veils" but they keep breaking up and then floating round the tank in the water flow which probably isn't helping things at all. Think I may have to sacrifice these plants and get some more. I'd like to avoid complete blackout and starvation if possible as I have young fry in there but will seriously consider it, if that's the only way to go.
I have FluvalU1 in marine 60L tank which seems able to cope with the waste side of things. Perhaps I need to get something that will increase the flow at substrate level altho the problems seems to be on the "stem plants" at the top near the surface as mentioned before. So that's why I'm thinking it's a lighting issue in my tank. I have blue lights for a moonlight effect. How will they impact on the problem if at all? I'm doing 15% water changes weekly. A week ago the nitrAtes were at 5ppm. Haven't checked it since tbh.
I have read that dosing with Erythromycin can help, but wouldn't that kill the filter bacteria too?
Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks in advance

 

[Lunar Jetman]

Mama, you can add things like Erythromycin to treat BGA but I've got a feeling it's not available over the counter in the UK. Also, you're treating the symptoms rather than the cause so you could see it come back.

A complete blackout should kill it off but you need to also think about making sure your flow is right as this stuff thrives in dead spots in your aquarium. Lighting should be on for a set period of time too so I'd think about a timer. It can also be caused by low nitrates so this is something that should also be considered.

I have just about managed to get it under control without the need for a blackout but this was because I'm (hopefully!) targeting the cause.

I bought a powerhead that helps keep the water circulating, giving me a flow rate of about 12x per hour, I reduced my lighting down to around 6 hours a day, then as I mix up my own ferts I put in a high dose that seemed to help (from memory it was a weeks worth in one go, then continued dosing as normal) as well as regular water changes and cleans to get rid of the worst of it.

Good luck!

 

[snazy]

Increased light period would lead to more nutritient and CO2 demand.
According to an article I read BGA can be associated with nitrate shortage, high phosphate levels and CO2 issues. This of course can be caused by low flow too, or it can grow in areas of low flow.  But decrease the light period too.
If blackout is not an option at the moment, you can try siphoning and cleaning what you can, do several big water changes to reset the nutritient levels, exposing the plants to air will saturate them with CO2 which will help. I am not sure if you are adding any fertilizers, but possibly try dosing some extra KNO3 instead(along with your other ferts because you don't want to substitute one issue for another, or create another deficiency)  If you think the long light period triggered it, then eliminating the algae and reverting back to conditions that worked for you would be best.
I personally don't fancy the idea of treating algae with antibiotics(although BGA isn't algae) but I haven't tried it, so I can't comment how useful or dangerous it can be.

 

[KCB]

Didn't realise this topic was still going ^^
 
Unfortunately after about 2-3 weeks I have some BGA coming back in the same place. This may have been because I went on holiday and so I wasn't able to dose with fertilisers and have the air pump on to increase flow, not entirely sure what's causing it though as low nitrate isn't an issue (it's 40-80ppm). It hasn't progressed as fast as it did before so maybe it is the ferts and flow thing.

 

[Mamashack]

Thanks for the advice, Lunar and snazy!
I'm currently using my bubble bar in the cycling tank to aid oxygenation for the friendly bacs. So once that's established I'll move it back to the 60L tank behind the stem plants altho I might remove the stem plants altogether and leave the anubia and java ferns and keep an eye on the water chemistry – all good this morning – ammonia 0, nitrItes 0, pH 7.8, nitrAtes 10-20ppm so I think the algae had stifled the stem plants perhaps a bit like a parasite. I will continue with daily water checks until it all seems to be stable.
I haven't a clue what to do about the nitrAtes otherwise - my tap water is 10-20ppm on API master test kit, but the plants seem to be keeping it down. I've heard 10-20ppm is a good range to aim for, for both fish and plants, but hadn't been able to achieve it since I put the plants in, until today.
I will definitely invest in a timer. When I remember to do it properly, I have been having the lights on for about 4 hrs in the morning, then off whilst I'm at work 1-9pm then back on for about 3 hrs after work, but I see in a previous post of yours that you recommend 7 hrs in one go, Lunar. Since I don't always remember to turn them off before I go to work I think your suggestion of a timer is the way to go.
I have now removed the stem plants and found a few strands on the larger java fern so I've covered the tank with a towel and will see what happens in a few days time.
I don't add fertilisers and the previously low level may have precipitated the situation along with the extended light period, however nitrAtes are currently at 10-20pmm so am hoping it won't be necassary.
Watch this space!!
 
EDIT: forgot to ask about the blue lights - any good or not??

 

[snazy]

That's how I caused my first major algae problems, no timers and I kept forgetting the lights on.  I remember even forgetting 24hrs once!!!

 So algae creeped into my home then. I ended up buying a timer that I never thought I'd need 

 Now I have 4 timers and I need to buy some more for the 5th tank. It's one thing less to worry about I suppose.