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Angelfish - Fungus problem

Discussion in 'Tropical Fish Emergencies' started by gto_cowgirl, Nov 11, 2003.

  1. gto_cowgirl

    gto_cowgirl Member

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    I have 2 tanks: a cycled 20 and 10 gallon. Both tanks had been cycled for quiet a while. Now i'm fighting fungus in the 20 gallon and ammonia seems to be rising.

    20 gallon: 1 angelfish, 1 rainbow fish, 2 plecos, 2 corys, 1 ghost shrimp
    10 gallon: 1 angelfish

    This is what happened:

    A while back in my 20 gallon, i had 2 angelfish. Both about quarter to half dollar size. I had both angelfish for quiet a while then suddenly one of them got a internal bacteria problem and i didn't find out till that angelfish died.

    Afterwards the other angelfish seemed lonely so i bought another angelfish but it was only dime to nickel size. I kept the new angelfish in the QT for a couple of weeks until yesterday when i decided to move the baby angelfish to the 20 gallon. After moving the baby angelfish, the older angelfish began to attack the baby as soon as the older angelfish realized the baby's existance. I put the baby angelfish back in the QT and moved all the oranments around. I put the baby angelfish back into the 20 gallon and the same thing happened. It was attacked.

    I had already stressed out the baby angel by moving her back and forth so i decided to then move the big angel to the QT and let the new angel adjust.

    That night the baby angel was pretty stressed but still eating. The next morning i wake up to find that she has fungus (white cottony) growing on her back tail kinda like in a straight line. There was also a spot of white fluffy cotton on the tip her other fins. I decided to treat for fungus in the 20 gallon. Went out and bought Jungle Fungus Clear and put it in the tank.

    That was yesterday. Today it seems to fungus is eating off her tail and getting worse. I also tested the water for ammonia and nitrites and the ammonia levels are .5 to 1.0. I'm not sure if its the medicine thats messing up my liquid test kit or the bacteria is all dead. The instructions say to leave it in there for 4 days then do a 25% w/c and if need more then do it again.

    I was wondering, am i suppose to do w/c every day? If i do, then she might die without having enough medicine. I have amquel which i'm going to put in right now to save her from the ammonia but i don't know what else to do.

    If i had salt then it might hurt the cories and otherwise i would have to move all of the cories, plecos and ghost shrimp.

    Any advice? The temp is 82. Ph is 8.0 and the water is hard to very hard. I have had no problems before with fungus until now.

     
  2. gto_cowgirl

    gto_cowgirl Member

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    So no one has ever had fungus with their fish?

    Well i talked to some people and they told me to use melafix, 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons and water changes for a week.

    So yesterday i did a 90% w/c to get rid of most of the ammonia because it was getting high then added the salt and melafix. My new angelfish seems to be a little more active and swimming around just a little more. Anyway i hope this works because i don't have much time seeing as her fins are almost completely off.
     
  3. semper fi

    semper fi mrs southeast michigan 2005

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    never have used melafix so cannot say how accurate it is at treating fungus. have used clout. a 90% waterchange is very risky. 75% is about the most that i would have recommended. areyou doing daily water changes?

    also, did you take out any carbon in your filters? carbon will remove the meds from the water. since you are using salt make sure to add enough to the amount of the replacement water only.

    fins should grow back.
     
  4. gto_cowgirl

    gto_cowgirl Member

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    Yes, i'm doing daily water changes now. I believe ammonia would be worse then what new water does? Also, i should let you know my water is well water, and the ph doesn't change overnight when the air gets released so that is one of the problems i don't have to worry about.

    I don't keep carbon in my filters unless i'm removing medication. Right now i don't have carbon but i plan to buy a small bag for my AquaClear once this fungus/fin rot problem is over with.

    I'm not to worried about the fins as much as the fungus. I have read on sites that if the fins are able to rot to the skin then it leave permanent damage. This fungus is causing the fins to rot back pretty bad.

    What are some types of fungus treatments you recommend? I heard MarOxy was good? I'm now going to do a couple of large water changes to get out all of the salt because i just got done talking to a reliable source that says it burns the plecos and corys skin/armor.
     
  5. gto_cowgirl

    gto_cowgirl Member

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    Finished the MarOxy treatment today with great success. My baby angel is swimming around and readily eats. I did 75% water changes everyday along with MarOxy for 5 days. After the first night, her fins slowly stopped rotting off and looks like the fins are started to grow out now.

    The baby angel was clamping her fins so i thought i was going to have to try CopperSafe for a couple of days but she got better on her own so i think there is no need. I added a sponge from one of my other AquaClears in another tank to this tank and the tank is now cycled. I'll let the sponge stay there a week or so until i know i can remove it without any problems.

    I'm going to continue to do 75% water changes on the tank for at least another week to make sure i get out all of the medication and give her fresh clean water. I put in some activated carbon also to help with the medicine removal.

    I learned from this that you cannot put small angels with large angels even if you move the decorations around to remove territorys. The size makes a big difference. I'm going to wait until she is at least quarter size before i try mixing the 2 angels again. Also, it's amazing how much better fish get when they get fresh clean water, so never under estimate it.

    Just thought i would update anyone that might need to know this information in the future about how to get rid of True Fungus.
     
  6. carppy

    carppy Member

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    daily 75% water changes are actually terrible for your fish. After years of trial and error and alot of advice from pros, 30% before you even treat the tank, then 30 the day after your med cycle is finished, then 10% daily for a week or so to clear all meds out. You should ALWAYS keep carbon in your filter, it removes amonia. Not having carbon to absorb the amonia from the fish waste is deadly. Melafix is awsome stuff for a variety of problems and you can leave your filters in while you use it. Maroxyn is also good stuff. Good luck with your angels. Mine was 10" when I finally sold her.
     
  7. semper fi

    semper fi mrs southeast michigan 2005

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    yes, you should always have carbon to remove ammonia EXCEPT when medicating. activated carbon will remove the meds from the water which it is designed to do. whenever youare medicating a fish, remove the carbon. if not you may as well take the meds and flush them down the toilet and hope that your fish is getting the proper meds to cure disease.
     
  8. Cian McLiam

    Cian McLiam Ye Olde Irish Tank Guy
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    Hi, I hope your angles is improving.
    I havent used any of the above treatments for fungus but I have used a combination of salt and malachite green painted on to the fungus with good results. The fungus is probably growing on an injury where the fish had been attacked, if the fins are disappearing then you probably had a bacterial infection also. Ive had good results with melafix but again, with clean water they will probably grow back with no meds.
    My opinion is that any more than 20% water changes a day is risky, unless your using de-ionized or RO water that you have complete control over and let the water reach room temp as chilled water can affect the immune system of the fish.
    I dont think your in an emergency situation anymore so there is no need for 75% water changes if your water parameters are ok.

    BTW I only use carbon in the filter for two days every two weeks, I dont agree that having not having carbon is deadly! The ammonia will be processed by he bacteria in the filter media and they need it to survive so I let them have as much as possible to let the colony thrive. Carbon is usually useless after about 3-4 days and will start leaching waste out after a few weeks, now that could be deadly! if using carbon in the filter, change it regularly...

    Ken
     
  9. gto_cowgirl

    gto_cowgirl Member

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    Let me say that i use Well water which does not contain any chemicals that city water does. Also, i tested the water after one day of aeration in a bucket in it was the same water params as water straight from the tap.

    Next, I have read on several posts that you do NOT need carbon. It is only used to remove meds, not ammonia. There is specific ammonia remover out there if you have a problem with bacteria. I do not need it because i put a sponge in my tank to help cycle it and it's working out fine. Here is a link if you do not believe me.

    http://www.ftas.net/yabbse/index.php?board...ay;threadid=434

    Also, i have a water heater. All i have to do is run the water till it is the temp of the tanks. I have been doing this method for months and i have yet a fish die because of this.

    Water changes can help drastically with fish. I have a friend that keeps discus that has told me how she can avoid medicine most of the time by just giving the fish a 50%-75% water change. When the fishs immune system is compromised then all that bad bacteria that you are letting stay in your water can make matters worse.

    Let me just say the medicine i had Killed all of the good bacteria. My tank was not cycled. If i would have did what carppy is implying, my fish would have died from ammonia poisoning.
     
  10. Cian McLiam

    Cian McLiam Ye Olde Irish Tank Guy
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    Hi cowgirl,
    Does your friend use RO water? Discus breeders often change up to 75% water in places like singapore where they can provide very high quality water that is very closely monitored, for normal community fish in the average house, I still think its excessive.
    Water from a well is likely to have as many mineral and heavy metal contaminants as city water has chemical additives. Plus the run off from the land could contain pesticides and other toxins. I would only use well water if I lived in siberia or somewhere very remote. Metals like copper etc have a very bad effect on the immune systems of fish.
    Do you run the water through a UV steriliser? The well water could also introduce micro-organsims and other pests that your domestic fish wont have the immune system to cope with.
    Just my opinion, maybe your well water is as clean as falling snow but unless you had a survey and water testing done by proffesionals I would still use RO and possibly UV to make sure. :/

    Ken
     
  11. gto_cowgirl

    gto_cowgirl Member

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    I don't know if she uses RO water or not but i seriously doubt she does because of everything she has told me. She is mostly an angelfish breeder but has discus tanks too. She does the water changes to either tank if noticed any of them was not looking well or acting unusual.

    I understand what your saying. I never thought about the other such as the land run off. And no i don't use a UV. But like i said i haven't had any problems and my angelfish is looking a lot better. This did not start because of water changes but because i kept moving the baby angel back and forth from tanks and then a large angelfish started attacking the baby badly.

    A while back i tried using RO water but the cost is expensive and then i talked to this friend and she told me how RO water is actually worse than well water because it doesn't have enough minerals. Because my water is so hard and full of minerals, i usually buy a few gallons of RO water and mix it with my well water in a 10 gallon which is the QT. Then as the weeks go by i slowly take out the RO water and replace it with well water so the new fish get use to it. I haven't had any problems because of this.

    I have only had 2 problems with fish since i began fish keeping and the first one was because i didn't cycle my tank (beginner) and didn't understand about that. The second one was this one where i put a baby angel with a large angel and the large angel picked on the baby enough to give it wounds and open it up to fungus.
     
  12. carppy

    carppy Member

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    not meaning to sound hostile..but uh I wouldn't offer advice if it would hurt the fish. I've been breeding cichlids and supplying them to fish rooms in my area for 6 years. Angels are beautiful and if you can raise them to full size best of luck to you. And yes there is a specific product for aqua clear filters that is a combo of amosorb and carbon. I've been using it since 96. In fact I just bought some of my peruvian blue severums great great grandkids from a petsmart. I advised you not to do 75% water changes every day..doing it in an emergency is different, especially when you have poisoned your fish. I myself had to the same last weekend because my filter system went for a crap. If you want medical advice from a pro, most of the reputable breeders have websights and will offer advice, also don't go to a petsmart to ask a question the best place to ask for help is a small private fish room
     

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