4 Tanks...none Will Cycle

[HayzH]

i abandoned Tanks 1 and 3's cycle and added fish..with no big problems.

I am now currently cycling Tanks 2 and 4.

Tank 2 has been cycling since AUGUST 2011. i was advised to reduce Ammonia dosage to about half and slowly rise the ammount once it clears it for a few days.

HOWEVER....I reduced the dose from 3.6ml Ammonia (70L) to 1.6ml...it STILL isnt clearing this dose to this day.
The ph was dropping alot but has been stable now for a while. (i bumped with bicarb when needed too)
The Nitrates are off the scale, but even when reduced with W/C's it still doesnt help the filter cycle the Nitites.

Why can't i cycle my tanks??

Please feel free to browse my diaries for readings... ANY help will be apreciated xx

 

[pkppv]

Every week it seems i see you reaching out about your cycle struggles, and everyweek I feel sorry.

But, in all honesty, if its failed you on FOUR TANKS it must be something of your fault, which is incouraging in that its fixable. Maybe its your water source? As it seems to me you follow all the proper cycling instructions.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Since August? You've been cycling since August! Well I never.

My initial reaction is to say strip the tank down and start again. I'll help you cycle in 3 weeks maximum, Almost certainly less if you do exactly what I ask you to do.

But then that's probably not the answer you wanted. You want to know why it's taking so long I bet. And I can't answer that, too many variables.

Out of interest what do you know about your source (tap water?). Tell me everything.

 

[HayzH]

Since August? You've been cycling since August! Well I never.

My initial reaction is to say strip the tank down and start again. I'll help you cycle in 3 weeks maximum, Almost certainly less if you do exactly what I ask you to do.

But then that's probably not the answer you wanted. You want to know why it's taking so long I bet. And I can't answer that, too many variables.

Out of interest what do you know about your source (tap water?). Tell me everything.

if you are going to say mature media....then it has had 2 lots in there. still no joy!
I have pm'd you some info on my local water stats.
I dont really want to start again if i can help it....124 days is long enough!!

 

[snazy]

What I would do if I were you, just out of curiousity, is to take the filter from let's say tank 4 and put it in tank 2 together with the original tank 2 filter.
Then dose ammonia and see if it will cycle it lets say in 24-36 hours

This will tell you if your filters are up to scratch on their own which was my initial suspicion a few weeks ago on one of your threads.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Too much ammonia will actually kill the bacteria, not make them reproduce. How and how much are you dosing.

Once your pH heads under about 6.5, it becomes harder to keep bacteria thriving and reproducing. The other side of that coin is that the lower the pH gets under 6.5, the less toxic the ammonia is.

 

[HayzH]

What I would do if I were you, just out of curiousity, is to take the filter from let's say tank 4 and put it in tank 2 together with the original tank 2 filter.
Then dose ammonia and see if it will cycle it lets say in 24-36 hours

This will tell you if your filters are up to scratch on their own which was my initial suspicion a few weeks ago on one of your threads.

This is a good idea..do i still dose the % of the tank? (ie 3.6ml)

 

[HayzH]

Too much ammonia will actually kill the bacteria, not make them reproduce. How and how much are you dosing.

Once your pH heads under about 6.5, it becomes harder to keep bacteria thriving and reproducing. The other side of that coin is that the lower the pH gets under 6.5, the less toxic the ammonia is.

i never let it get under Ph 7.6. its stable at 8.1 now. it only wobbles when/if i w/c to bring down Nitrates.

I dose via syringe .. originally 3.6ml...got a few double 0's so reduced to 1.2ml (2ppm)since i reduced it ..it has taken all this time for me to get nr enuff to 0 Nitrites (Ammonia has been 0 for yonks now) to slowwwwwly up it bit by bit.....1.4ml.....1.6ml....now i'm up to 1.8ml every 24 hrs.

Tank 4 is virtually there i would say...its clearing 3ml (60L)of ammonia no probs...Nitrite is 0.25 ???

with adding tank 4's filter to Tank 2...could work but when i remove it...wont it half the bioload again???

 

[TwoTankAmin]

You can dose ammonia and get a 0 Ammonia reading. you have lots of nitrates but you keep getting a nitrite reading. Sounds to me like your tank is cycled and your nitrite kit is bad or you are not doing it right.

Remember, bacteria #1 eats ammonia and poops nitrites, bacteria #2 eats nitrites and poops nitrates. You normally should not get nitrates unless you bacteria #2 is there and doing its thing. Therefore, my hunch is what I stated above.

 

[snazy]

This is a good idea..do i still dose the % of the tank? (ie 3.6ml)

I would still dose the same % to test. And is no harm to try. Maybe the filters you have in there are so staffed with sponges, that it circulates the water through the filter media too slow and dicreases the flow rate, and thus the efficiency. So adding the two together is a good test I would do and it will not necessarily harm the established bacteria so far in both filters.

 

[HayzH]

You can dose ammonia and get a 0 Ammonia reading. you have lots of nitrates but you keep getting a nitrite reading. Sounds to me like your tank is cycled and your nitrite kit is bad or you are not doing it right.

Remember, bacteria #1 eats ammonia and poops nitrites, bacteria #2 eats nitrites and poops nitrates. You normally should not get nitrates unless you bacteria #2 is there and doing its thing. Therefore, my hunch is what I stated above.

how can one test Nitrite wrong
i am on my second full masterkit now.bought from seperate places..so how cn they both be bad???

 

[TwoTankAmin]

1. Using too much or too little water in the test tube.
2. Using a finger to cover the top instead of the cap when shaking.
3. Failing properly to clean the test tube before filling and testing.
4. Holding the bottle at an angle so drop sizes are not "uniform".
5. Failing to shake the solution for the time directed.
6. Reading the colors wrong.
7. Reading the resutls to soon.
8. Collecting the sample water from near the surface of the tank.
9. Using the wrong number of drops.
10. Expired test kit date. Did you check the date on the box before puiurchasing?
11. Storing kits at too high a temp.

Test strips can be affected by humidity and by having the squares touched.

Here is an interesting illustrated read on getting a false positive from a JBL nitrite test http/www.johanpaul.com/aquarium/tag/false-positive/

Here is another interesting read from TFF http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/323156-chemistry-of-api-test-kits/

 

[HayzH]

1. Using too much or too little water in the test tube.
2. Using a finger to cover the top instead of the cap when shaking.
3. Failing properly to clean the test tube before filling and testing.
4. Holding the bottle at an angle so drop sizes are not "uniform".
5. Failing to shake the solution for the time directed.
6. Reading the colors wrong.
7. Reading the resutls to soon.
8. Collecting the sample water from near the surface of the tank.
9. Using the wrong number of drops.
10. Expired test kit date. Did you check the date on the box before puiurchasing?
11. Storing kits at too high a temp.

Test strips can be affected by humidity and by having the squares touched.

Here is an interesting illustrated read on getting a false positive from a JBL nitrite test http/www.johanpaul.com/aquarium/tag/false-positive/

Here is another interesting read from TFF http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/323156-chemistry-of-api-test-kits/

that told me?

1. Using too much or too little water in the test tube. i am very anal about making sure its on the line!
2. Using a finger to cover the top instead of the cap when shaking.i use the cap...not my finger
3. Failing properly to clean the test tube before filling and testing.i be anal with cleaning too
4. Holding the bottle at an angle so drop sizes are not "uniform". bottles are staight up
5. Failing to shake the solution for the time directed.as by instuctions
6. Reading the colors wrong. which has always been my point....as the master kit chart differs from the singlely bought test chart!!!
7. Reading the resutls to soon.as 5.
8. Collecting the sample water from near the surface of the tank. does this REALLY make a difference??
9. Using the wrong number of drops.umm.....i'm not that stupid
10. Expired test kit date. Did you check the date on the box before puiurchasing? if you meant purchasing...then yes i did check the dates.
11. Storing kits at too high a temp. UK room temp.

Test strips can be affected by humidity and by having the squares touched. do not use strips!