starrynightxxi
Fish Herder
I repopulated a twenty gallon tank on saturday, including a pair of Blue Rams and the little buggers have already spawned! Are they always so prolific? 
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ox5477
Wet pets make the best Pets
Must be you have a very comfortable tank for them. They got in, found a little hiding place or a nice territory in general they wished to call their own, and then got to work doing what they do. Congrats on the eggs!
Note: They prob had paired in the lfs (if thats where you got them from) and started to mate a day or two before you bought them. Just lucky I guess to pick them at the right time
Note: They prob had paired in the lfs (if thats where you got them from) and started to mate a day or two before you bought them. Just lucky I guess to pick them at the right time
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starrynightxxi
Fish Herder
Well, it's possible that they had paired up beforehand, but they were in a 5 gallon in the show room with a whole bunch of other small rams. I guess it's possible that this just happened to be the dominant pair and so were looking their best as when I asked for a pair, and the owner (who i'm friends with) picked out the fish he said he would take home if it was him, but it just seems so unlikely to me that out of all the fish in the tank, I got a pre-made pair.
and now that that run-on sentence is done, either way, I'm glad they're happy. I've never had egg layers spawn before so it's rather exciting
and now that that run-on sentence is done, either way, I'm glad they're happy. I've never had egg layers spawn before so it's rather exciting
ox5477
Wet pets make the best Pets
Cool! Should be a fun experience for you. Make sure you have a grow out tank, and maybe your buddy will be nice enough to buy all your baby rams when they grow a little.
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starrynightxxi
Fish Herder
perhaps. I'm not too worried about a grow out tank at this point. He probably would give me store credit, but at the moment there's nothing i need and I have no room for a grow out tank. If they get eaten, it's okay by me (being in college i can't afford not to abide by survival of the fittest -lol-), but I imagine some will survive along the way.
Do you know what size they will be considered rival rams by their parents and what size they can be transported? I DO have a hospital tank so if it's necessary to pull them out if they are in danger of attack before they are shippable i can, but i'd rather not put them there if i don't have to.
Do you know what size they will be considered rival rams by their parents and what size they can be transported? I DO have a hospital tank so if it's necessary to pull them out if they are in danger of attack before they are shippable i can, but i'd rather not put them there if i don't have to.
ox5477
Wet pets make the best Pets
Well I would worrry as they grow closer to the size of the parents, but that is almost impossible to happen inside your twenty there. Depending on how many there are in the tank and the size and maturity of the parents, I would say only keep them for a couple weeks in that tank at most. Even if your hospital is only 10G, that would prob be better for the fry to live in as you can leave it bare bottom to keep it extra clean to keep the fry healthy, and then the threat of the parents consuming them would dissappear. You just have to make sure you feed them enough and keep the tank spotless.
When they get to about 1/2" or so then try selling them back to your buddy, or if he won't take them then sell them to another lfs if possible. If you know there is nobody to take them and your buddy def won't buy them all back and your not in the market to buy a bigger tank to house them, then I would just leave them in the tank with the parents and maybe the quick death of being eaten will be better than living in cramped quarters or dying of another method. good luck any path you choose
EDIT: Just a few questions I should've asked prob..... How big are the parents? How many fry are there? What is the rest of the stocking in the 20G?
When they get to about 1/2" or so then try selling them back to your buddy, or if he won't take them then sell them to another lfs if possible. If you know there is nobody to take them and your buddy def won't buy them all back and your not in the market to buy a bigger tank to house them, then I would just leave them in the tank with the parents and maybe the quick death of being eaten will be better than living in cramped quarters or dying of another method. good luck any path you choose
EDIT: Just a few questions I should've asked prob..... How big are the parents? How many fry are there? What is the rest of the stocking in the 20G?
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starrynightxxi
Fish Herder
well, i've already informed him that if any of the fish have fry that survive, they're going to his place, so he already knows I have no room for fry and don't intend to make a lot of changes for their survival, but if they're going to die I'd rather it be because they were eaten then because I left them in with my established pair and they became the victims of territorial aggression. That's just a total waste.
At the moment there are no fry, just a few eggs. I don't know how many as they laid them rather unceremoniously on the gravel in a corner that's very awkward for me to get into. And i don't know if they will actually hatch since I don't know the hardness of my water (apparently it's supposed to be soft, but i don't have a hardness kit) but I'd like to be somewhat prepared on what to expect if they should hatch.
The adults... the female's about an inch, the male about an inch and a quarter to a half.
other inhabitants are 5 rummynose tetras, 1 pr. montezuma swords, and two scarlet badis (i've been told they may not do well with the rams since they are small and slow eaters so they may be relocated, but are not much threat to the rams being half an inch), and three ghost shrimp. At full grown max sizes, I'll be a few inches overtocked, but everyone should have room (and if not, i can return some)
[edit] i should add that i'm glad that they are happy enough to breed, but breeding is not my intention, and I DO have the tanks to set up a place for fry, I just don't have loads of room since i live in a 1 room apt with kitchen and bathroom. I would rather not move them until i have to (ie: when they are not going to be eaten and will begin to be a problem). This goes for the swords as well though if they spawn i will probably keep one female to even out that stocking, but i am trying to get information on them elsewhere
I have no room for fry and don't intend to make a lot of changes for their survival, but if they're going to die I'd rather it be because they were eaten then because I left them in with my established pair and they became the victims of territorial aggression. That's just a total waste.At the moment there are no fry, just a few eggs. I don't know how many as they laid them rather unceremoniously on the gravel in a corner that's very awkward for me to get into. And i don't know if they will actually hatch since I don't know the hardness of my water (apparently it's supposed to be soft, but i don't have a hardness kit) but I'd like to be somewhat prepared on what to expect if they should hatch.
The adults... the female's about an inch, the male about an inch and a quarter to a half.
other inhabitants are 5 rummynose tetras, 1 pr. montezuma swords, and two scarlet badis (i've been told they may not do well with the rams since they are small and slow eaters so they may be relocated, but are not much threat to the rams being half an inch), and three ghost shrimp. At full grown max sizes, I'll be a few inches overtocked, but everyone should have room (and if not, i can return some)
[edit] i should add that i'm glad that they are happy enough to breed, but breeding is not my intention, and I DO have the tanks to set up a place for fry, I just don't have loads of room since i live in a 1 room apt with kitchen and bathroom. I would rather not move them until i have to (ie: when they are not going to be eaten and will begin to be a problem). This goes for the swords as well though if they spawn i will probably keep one female to even out that stocking, but i am trying to get information on them elsewhere
ox5477
Wet pets make the best Pets
well, i've already informed him that if any of the fish have fry that survive, they're going to his place, so he already knows
At the moment there are no fry, just a few eggs. I don't know how many as they laid them rather unceremoniously on the gravel in a corner that's very awkward for me to get into. And i don't know if they will actually hatch since I don't know the hardness of my water (apparently it's supposed to be soft, but i don't have a hardness kit) but I'd like to be somewhat prepared on what to expect if they should hatch.
The adults... the female's about an inch, the male about an inch and a quarter to a half.
other inhabitants are 5 rummynose tetras, 1 pr. montezuma swords, and two scarlet badis (i've been told they may not do well with the rams since they are small and slow eaters so they may be relocated, but are not much threat to the rams being half an inch), and three ghost shrimp. At full grown max sizes, I'll be a few inches overtocked, but everyone should have room (and if not, i can return some)
[edit] i should add that i'm glad that they are happy enough to breed, but breeding is not my intention, and I DO have the tanks to set up a place for fry, I just don't have loads of room since i live in a 1 room apt with kitchen and bathroom. I would rather not move them until i have to (ie: when they are not going to be eaten and will begin to be a problem). This goes for the swords as well though if they spawn i will probably keep one female to even out that stocking, but i am trying to get information on them elsewhere
Ok, so you don't even know if the eggs were fertilized then. You could have two females, and the one, being her first time just layed eggs in the corner. OK, well if the eggs have a yellowish tint to them, then they are fertilized and you do indeed have a breeding pair. If they are white, then they are unfertilized and will just be eventually eaten by someone in the tank. This could mean you either have two females, or just the male wasnt ready to mate, or that he does not want to pair with the female.
If there isnt that many eggs and only like a dozen fry hatch, then you could move them over to your 10G and easily grow them to almost the size of your parent fish at the moment (~3/4 to 1"). If you allow this, then you will get more money for them from your buddy (or atleast you should) because of their size.
Interested to know if they're fertilized or not!!
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starrynightxxi
Fish Herder
well, by all the ways that i've been instructed to tell males from females, I have a pair, and they were very interested in guarding those eggs. But from what you say they weren't fertilized, which was another thing i was wondering. they've torn apart the small clutch though and eaten most of them, but I imagine if it's happened once, it'll happen again providing i do in fact have a male and female )
)
ox5477
Wet pets make the best Pets
Most New worlds, if not all cichlids will have "problems" with their first off-spring. They will usually eat the eggs, leave them un-guarded for other's to come eat them or just not do everything the right way. They will learn with practice and after 2 or 3 times they will get it right.
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starrynightxxi
Fish Herder
yeah, i figured. most animals are that way (although as ageneral rule, horses don't eat their babies ) and i've read enough of the breeding journals to expect things along those lines. I'm not broken hearted, though it'll be interesting to see if they ever successfully raise fry in the future.
I read on one site that although sometimes the female will help, it's almost always the male that gets stuck with a majority of the babysitting (esp. once the fry hatch) and i sure saw that. He may not have fertilized the eggs, but he was much more consistent about guarding them then the female. She'd kind of... wander off and then they'd have a small squabble and he'd go fan them for the next ten minutes while she's off galavanting around
) and i've read enough of the breeding journals to expect things along those lines. I'm not broken hearted, though it'll be interesting to see if they ever successfully raise fry in the future. I read on one site that although sometimes the female will help, it's almost always the male that gets stuck with a majority of the babysitting (esp. once the fry hatch) and i sure saw that. He may not have fertilized the eggs, but he was much more consistent about guarding them then the female. She'd kind of... wander off and then they'd have a small squabble and he'd go fan them for the next ten minutes while she's off galavanting around
ox5477
Wet pets make the best Pets
That is the one cool thing about most cichlids. They breed for life usually and they seem to share parenting responsibilities. Alot of the time the female tends the eggs and when they finally hatch, the male is who the fry usually will hang around with. It's really quite interesting to watch the whole drama take place
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