Yeast-based Co2 Instability

[hakova]

Hi guys,

I set up a yeast-based CO2 system (Red Sea brand) about a week ago. The tubing is connected to a powerhead that is supposed to break down the bubbles into tiny ones to enhance dissolution. However, the pressure in the system is already too low to push the bubble against the water pumped through the powerhead outlet. When I shake the yeast tank a little bit things work, but hey, I cannot stand next to my fish tank throughout the whole 6 hours of light period a day, right?

So I decided to ask here first, to see if I am doing anything wrong. I used the powders that came with the kit; one looked like sugar (I don't know if it had baking powder in it additionally), the other one looked like active dry yeast. I don't think there is any leak in the system. Is this typical for this type of CO2 set ups?

My plants need CO2 obviously whatever the source is, so what would you do if you were in my shoes? A pressurized system, I think, is a little overkill for a 10 gallon tank. It costs around $100-120 minimum using relatively cheaper equipment. I am seriously considering Seachem Flourish Excel for long term usage as a replacement for my CO2 needs. My tank is heavily planted as of last Friday night with 4 pots of HC, 10 roots of saggitaria subulata, 3 java ferns and one anubias barteri v nana. I have a total of 48 watts of lighting, therefore CO2 need is obviously high. I am eager to hear the experts' opinions on my problem.

Thanks in advance for the responders.

 

[Ed Green]

Hi guys,

I set up a yeast-based CO2 system (Red Sea brand) about a week ago. The tubing is connected to a powerhead that is supposed to break down the bubbles into tiny ones to enhance dissolution. However, the pressure in the system is already too low to push the bubble against the water pumped through the powerhead outlet. When I shake the yeast tank a little bit things work, but hey, I cannot stand next to my fish tank throughout the whole 6 hours of light period a day, right?

So I decided to ask here first, to see if I am doing anything wrong. I used the powders that came with the kit; one looked like sugar (I don't know if it had baking powder in it additionally), the other one looked like active dry yeast. I don't think there is any leak in the system. Is this typical for this type of CO2 set ups?

My plants need CO2 obviously whatever the source is, so what would you do if you were in my shoes? A pressurized system, I think, is a little overkill for a 10 gallon tank. It costs around $100-120 minimum using relatively cheaper equipment. I am seriously considering Seachem Flourish Excel for long term usage as a replacement for my CO2 needs. My tank is heavily planted as of last Friday night with 4 pots of HC, 10 roots of saggitaria subulata, 3 java ferns and one anubias barteri v nana. I have a total of 48 watts of lighting, therefore CO2 need is obviously high. I am eager to hear the experts' opinions on my problem.

Thanks in advance for the responders.

Hi I used a yeast based co2 system in my small tank and so far it is very successful. I don’t know about the Red Sea one - I use the Nutrafin one - perhaps try that?

When I first got it I had the same problem, no pressure so the bubbles were one big one every now and again, useless.

It was because the premix stuff you get in those sets are rubbish, mine actually went out of date 3 years before I bought it! As soon as I used my own ingredients it was perfect. Try using the DIY recipe mentioned on this forum - I find it works wonders. I put sugar into the line indicated on the tub, half a tea spoon of yeast and fill up with water - good for about 2 weeks and then starts to get less reliable and needs refilling. Give it a go!

Ed

 

[hakova]

...It was because the premix stuff you get in those sets are rubbish, mine actually went out of date 3 years before I bought it! ...

Thanks Ed,

I think that was exactly why I had trouble with mine, too. As a matter of fact, active dry yeast should be either kept in vacuum sealed packages or kept in the fridge until use. I know it from my baking experience. I did like you said, used my own ingredients and observed a much better output. I also added 1 tsp of baking powder to the mixture, since I read that this might help stabilizing the pH and therefore prolonging the reaction. So far so good.

My drop checker also arrived today, I set it up and already got a green color within 2 hours! Life is good!

 

[Ed Green]

...It was because the premix stuff you get in those sets are rubbish, mine actually went out of date 3 years before I bought it! ...

Thanks Ed,

I think that was exactly why I had trouble with mine, too. As a matter of fact, active dry yeast should be either kept in vacuum sealed packages or kept in the fridge until use. I know it from my baking experience. I did like you said, used my own ingredients and observed a much better output. I also added 1 tsp of baking powder to the mixture, since I read that this might help stabilizing the pH and therefore prolonging the reaction. So far so good.

My drop checker also arrived today, I set it up and already got a green color within 2 hours! Life is good!

Glad you have it sorted. I didnt know it needed to be stored in the fridge, mine is just in a cupboard. I will move it tonight! I havent put any baking powder in but might just as an experiment next time I change.

 

[Geoff1991]

Yeah, you will get leaks and instability with yeast based kits. I never found a way around it, so i upgraded to pressurized.

 

[lljdma06]

Yeah, you will get leaks and instability with yeast based kits. I never found a way around it, so i upgraded to pressurized.

Eh, I think if the lighting is not too crazy, the tank is small, you've got double mixes going with valves so you can turn each on on and off independently, and you've a drop checker, I think it's a good, cheap alternative to pressurized. I wouldn't use it for a very high light tank though. To hard to control.

OP, did you read this thread at PARC?

Nutrafin CO2 Basic User Guide

It's a long one, but very informative.

llj

 

[hakova]

For those of you guys who use pressurized CO2, what is your experience with solenoid valves? I heard that they get hot and go out of order within months; is this correct, at least in your own experience? If not, can you tell me how long have you been using yours without problems? The one I found on ebay (Milwaukee brand) comes with a 6 month warranty. I am trying to justify upgrading to pressurized CO2 vs. getting a second bottle of yeast-based CO2 with a T connector, etc., please help me deciding here.

Thanks lljdma06 BTW for the link, I was looking for that recently and couldn't locate it.

 

[lljdma06]

For those of you guys who use pressurized CO2, what is your experience with solenoid valves? I heard that they get hot and go out of order within months; is this correct, at least in your own experience? If not, can you tell me how long have you been using yours without problems? The one I found on ebay (Milwaukee brand) comes with a 6 month warranty. I am trying to justify upgrading to pressurized CO2 vs. getting a second bottle of yeast-based CO2 with a T connector, etc., please help me deciding here.

Thanks lljdma06 BTW for the link, I was looking for that recently and couldn't locate it.

If you plan to keep the 48W then yes, go to pressurized, regardless of problems you've heard about with the solenoid valves. That, I cannot help you with since I've never used pressurized. But, you'll never get the CO2 levels you'll need to generate good growth and no algae with fermentation without it becomming a huge hassle. If your reduce the lighting by roughly half, then fermentation CO2 becomes more feasible.

llj

 

[mdwheeler]

heres my setup I was talking about:

My setup right now is basically the same just a different recipe. I also have a relief valve on the other left side outlet (basically the air flow control valve that came with my powerhead) that way I can completely stop the co2 from coming into my tank at night or to relieve the pressure from the bottles without drying out my powerhead (if need be).

I would definitely consider this as a slightly pressurized system that allows me control over my co2 flow. I literally could pop a ballon with all the co2 within those bottles. I can't even squeeze the sides their so tight (but I know they won't burst).

I know it's higher maintainace but it lasts about 2-3 weeks and is a cheaper alternative. Now If I had the money I would DEFINITELY go to a fully automated system. I'll be setting up a 29 gallon next summer and will probably be purchasing a pressurized co2 system. The good thing about them as that you have co2 for about two months as opposed to about 2 weeks (so I've heard).

I would definitely take lljdma06's advice and buy the system as long as your not gonna break your bank account.

We could also incorporate this into our little "experiment." I'll be sticking with my current system right now and will be adding fertilizer to my tank (don't know how much though....lljdma06....little help? )

 

[Geoff1991]

For those of you guys who use pressurized CO2, what is your experience with solenoid valves? I heard that they get hot and go out of order within months; is this correct, at least in your own experience? If not, can you tell me how long have you been using yours without problems? The one I found on ebay (Milwaukee brand) comes with a 6 month warranty. I am trying to justify upgrading to pressurized CO2 vs. getting a second bottle of yeast-based CO2 with a T connector, etc., please help me deciding here.

Thanks lljdma06 BTW for the link, I was looking for that recently and couldn't locate it.

I have been using a solenoid valve and it does get hot, but it works fine. Had it about a month so far.

Other members here have been using them longer without problems. I paid a bit more for mine and got it from aqua essentials, mainly because richard is a nice guy and i like buying from AE whenever possible, as a) theyre really good and B) because they deserve to do well, their service is top quality.

 

[lljdma06]

I would definitely take lljdma06's advice and buy the system as long as your not gonna break your bank account.

We could also incorporate this into our little "experiment." I'll be sticking with my current system right now and will be adding fertilizer to my tank (don't know how much though....lljdma06....little help? )

What are you dosing again? Being usually a low-techie, ferts aren't my forte. I'd follow the directions first and see where that gets you.

 

[hakova]

I took off one of the tubes finally (10K) and walla, the other tube (plant spectrum) still works. So I think we had one problem down.

I mentioned before about a couple of roots of HC looking bad, I just left them in place thinking that they will provide some ammonia to the bacteria and other plants. After all, we use mowed grass as fertilizer, don't we? However, last night for the first time in weeks, I had 0.25 ppm ammonia detectable in my tank and this morning I woke up to a tank that was having a bacterial bloom. I did a 80% WC, rooted most of the rotting HCs, clipped some leaves off from the saggitaria subulata. I was planning to add my first fish today, but even after the WC, I still detect 0.25-0.50 ppm ammonia. Before the WC, nitrate levels were around 80 ppm, too, so I don't know if this had anything with the bacterial bloom or not. I am also worried that there are more plants doing not so good, although not immediately noticeable. I planted my tank 8 days ago and attributed this rotting situation to some planting trauma. Now I am also considering the ammonia I was adding (10% with a dropper) actually hurting these plants. Maybe I should have diluted the ammonia first in a larger volume, rather than directly dropping into the tank. I guess I am going to wait a day or two before adding any fish now. The question is, whether my bacteria are going to get hurt if I just rely on the ammonia in the tank. I think I will keep checking the levels and (hopefully) once they drop to zero again, I will head for the LFS. Bummer. I am very interested in hearing your opinions about this recent set of events and their possible reasons lljdma06, when you have a chance. I can easily post pictures if you need to see what they look like, although I just removed most of the bad looking ones.

Geoff1991, I live in the US, so I cannot use AE, but for very similar reasons and a possibly better warranty coverage I was considering Drs F&S to buy the solenoid from if needed. Now that I was able to make a single light tube work, I will probably put off my plans for a pressurized system and start doing my part of our "experiment" with mdwheeler.

It is a formidable set up mdwheeler. I am currently using only one 1 liter bottle. I guess I should buy/fix at least another bottle before switching to anything else. I also have problem in hiding the yeast bottles because of the placement of my tank. That would not be an issue if I have a pressurized system with a longer tubing.

Thanks all for reading.

 

[lljdma06]

I took off one of the tubes finally (10K) and walla, the other tube (plant spectrum) still works. So I think we had one problem down.

Geoff1991, I live in the US, so I cannot use AE, but for very similar reasons and a possibly better warranty coverage I was considering Drs F&S to buy the solenoid from if needed. Now that I was able to make a single light tube work, I will probably put off my plans for a pressurized system and start doing my part of our "experiment" with mdwheeler.

Thanks all for reading.

AE delivers to the US. I'll be making an order soon. Shipping is pricey, so make the order count. I'm getting a few things.