Will They Ever Be Normal?

[sj022698]

We have a 55 gallon tank. I was keeping the temp. at about 76-77 but have raised it to 78-79. We have 2 filters and we have marbles instead of sand, rock, etc... When I set the tank up, I was told to let it sit 2-4 weeks to let the bacteria start, so I did. We have just a couple of plants and I added one of those strips that goes on the floor that makes the bubble/oxygen.

We are not over feeding and when testing the water, occasionally some will come up high like nitrates, ph, hard, etc... so we will add the appropriate medicine to help with that. It helps but has not seemed ot last very long. Now, my real problem. To help, here are the fishes I currently have that have not died (sorry if they are misspelled.
1-Grami
1- Lepernous
1- Bala Shark
1- Rainbow Shark
1- Basami Rainbow
2- small tetras??

The problem is that in the last 3-4 weeks we have not had a single day of healthy fish. We have talked with numerous fish stores and not places like petco/petsmart. Places that specialize in fish only. We have followed all of their advice to a tee.

Ick- We have treated a bunch of times, however, we do wait the correct period between treatments including the appropriate water changes, and removing filters.

They have had parasites- internal and external
We have treated them for that with different suggested medicines and changed the water appropriately

Right now, we are waiting till we can give them the appropriate medicines again.

Currently, they have Fungus, tail rot, flukes, cotton, external parasites, look very scaly. They are not swimming well.

What should I do. It is just a constant circle of medicines. 3-4 weeks is a long time. Is there something I am doing wrong. This is our first fish tank and I feel that I researched appropriately before jumping into in. I have spent a fortune on medicine and it can't be good for the fish.

The fish today look very bad and I don't want to lose them.

All suggestions are more than appreciated!

Thanks,
Justin

 

[WILDER]

Sadly flukes can do a lot of damage to fish causing bacteria infections on top, plus flukes are hard to get rid off, do they still have the flukes, once bacterial infections strike on top not good i'm afraid.

 

[tttnjfttt]

If you are having this much trouble, I would suggest you first look at your water quality. What are your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH levels? Unfortunatley, leaving your tank sit for three weeks with water in it won't help build up bacteria. The bacteria need a source of food (ammonia and nitrite), and won't develop with out it.

Exactly what are you adding to your water right now? I understand the need to add medicine, but its best to treat things like ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and pH problems naturally, with out chemicals. Don't mess with the pH, your fish will do better in a slightly higher or lower pH as long as it is stable. Do water changes to handle the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Do it twice a day if you need to.

For medicines I would recomend you treat your tank wiht antibiotics, use both Maracyn and Maracyn 2. Fungus, cotton, and tail rot are all bacterial problems (swimming problems can be a bacterial problem wiht the swim blader as well). You say they look scaly, what exactly do you mean by that? Are their scales sticking out like a pine cone? What are the symptoms of the external parasites you are seeing?

 

[WILDER]

I don't really recommend mixing meds, but you will need a bacterial med on top of the parasite med, but things don't look to good too much going on, increase aeration plus maybe turn temp down 2 degrees, to see if you can stop the bacteria multiplying.

 

[sj022698]

Sadly flukes can do a lot of damage to fish causing bacteria infections on top, plus flukes are hard to get rid off, do they still have the flukes, once bacterial infections strike on top not good i'm afraid.

The Bala Shark and the Lepernous have the flukes still. My wife just treated them a bit ago and said that they might be getting smaller but she's not positive. Those are the only ones that have that problem. What am I doing wrong?

 

[WILDER]

Not the writer of this information below.
Columnaris (a.k.a. Mouth Fungus)



Symptoms:

An infected fish will have off-white to gray cotton-like patches on the head, fins, gills, body and particularly the mouth. In time, these areas will develop into open sores. Gill swelling may occur, gill filaments may stick together and excessive mucus may develop in the gill area. Rapid breathing can be seen. Fins may deteriorate to the point of leaving the fin rays bare. Muscles may be inflamed and capillaries may rupture. Fish, particularly livebearers, may exhibit "shimmying". Infection may be acute (killing an infected fish within hours), or chronic (lingering for several days before eventually killing the fish). As with most diseases, not all symptoms need be present.



Cause:

The bacterium Flexibacter columnaris.



Treatment:

Ensure that your water conditions (e.g., Ammonia, Nitrite, pH, Nitrate levels, and water temp.) are within their proper ranges. If not, perform a water change and/or treat the water accordingly. Recommended medications include: Furanace, Fungus Eliminator, Fungus Cure, Furacyn, Furan-2, Triple Sulfa, E.M. Tablets, Tetracycline, or Potassium Permanganate. Medicated foods are also recommended. Columnaris can be highly infectious and may quickly kill all aquarium inhabitants; therefore, early treatment is essential. All fish, including those not yet showing visible symptoms, as well as the aquarium they inhabit should be treated.





Not the writer of this information below.
Flukes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Freshwater flukes occur in all parts of the world on numerous species of fishes. By their name, you might expect them to be visible to the naked eye, however, they are microscopic.
Flukes occur in two major classes, that is; Dactylogyrus, the famed Gill Fluke, and the second class is Gyrodactylus, the Skin fluke. There are certain morphological differencesbetween these two classes. Under the microscope, you would notice that the Dactylogyrus fluke has several pairs of eye-spots, and they also lay eggs. In a specimen of Gyrodactylus, you would only see an embryo inside, with no eyespots in the adult.
The class Dactylogyrus occurs in over a hundred different species. Notable members of the dactylogyrus group are the common and extremely damaging D. vastator and the amazing D. extensus (the common Israeli Fluke) which can function very efficiently in very cold water.
On average, Dactylogyrus lays about 2 eggs per hour in cold water (12o C), and as many as 20 eggs per hour in warm water (24o C).The eggs are swept out from under the gill cover into the environment. It takes the eggs almost a month to hatch in the wintertime, but only 4 days to hatch in the peak of summer. 4 days after hatching, the tiny larva becomes free swimming and can infect a new host. Ten days after attaching to a new host, the new larva matures and can begin egglaying activity. The adult will live anywhere from two weeks to a month and then perish. However, in cold water, individual adults and eggs can survive in hibernation for five to seven months. Most of the research supports the following mathematics, and that is: In the summer, one adult Dactylogyrus fluke can produce 2,320 individuals in only thirty days.
Gyrodactylus flukes reproduce by producing live young which set about parasitizing the host immediately. After the first fertilized egg moves into the uterus to be gestated, delivery occurs five days later and more eggs move into the empty uterus to resume the cycle. A female Gyrodactylus is always gestating, and they are so prolific that the embryo inside the mother actually gestates a fertilized egg from its mother in its uterus! One adult Gyrodactylus can produce 2,452 individuals within 30 days during the summer. As with Dactylogyrus, the adult will live anywhere from two weeks to a month and then perish. However, in cold water, individual adults and eggs can survive in hibernation for five to seven months.
Most flukes agree that the best place to live is onthe surface of a fishes' skin or gills, feeding on blood, and mucus found there. In my studies of these parasites, I have found considerable overlap of the different species on a single fish. Dactylogyrus seems to have no qualms about showing up in a skin scraping, and Gyrodactylus seems to have equal affinity for the gills.
All types of flukes share the same microscopic features: On their front (anterior) end we see suction cups, and on their foot end they are equipped with an array of sharp haptens or hooks. They can attach with either structure, but most often we see them deeply hooked into the skin or gill, exploring the surface of the fish with the suctorian end. Flukes are easy to diagnose miscroscopically. A skin scraping should be taken with a plastic coverslip from under the chin, between the gill covers. Another sample should be collected from the side of the body; scraping from there and out onto the tail and off the tip. The mucus is placed with a drop of pond water on a slide an viewed at 40x total magnification with the iris diaphragm closed down, and lighting low enough for comfort. You should see 'wormy' looking organisms. Usually they are extremely active. They are capable of elongating and contracting with both amazing speed and dramatic agility. Especially in water containing 0.3% salinity, usually flukes are all you could hope to see because the other types of parasites (ciliated protozoans) are anhilated by that salt level.
Their primary mode of killing would ostensibly be through the accumulation of large numbers. Especially in fish fry, the numbers of flukes encountered areaccepted as the cause of mortality simply because they take such a toll on the victim when they occur in large numbers. Based on observations made in practice, however, I would like to introduce my opinion of how just a few flukes can kill a larger fish.
In the process of attacking a host, the flukes dig deely into the epidermis and gill tissue with their haptens. Regardless of species, the flukes are known to carry and inoculate pathogenic bacteria. Flukes from certain areas, and on certain batches of fish carry more and more dangerous and virulent bacteria on their haptens. In this way, discovery of a few flukes on the gills or skin can account for rapid and mortal outbreaks of Aeromonas and Pseudomonas funrunculosis (Ulcer Disease).
Control of flukes has become increasingly easy with contemporary medicine. Potassium permanganate has been shown to be effective when applied as an eight hour bath at one gram per hundred gallons (2 ppm) or when dosed daily at 2 ppm for five days consecutively. Alternatively, some have found that despite it's negative effects on fish and filter, that Formalin is effective in eradication of fluke adults, with a second treatment (three days later) serving as clean-up for the emerging young. Finally, Fluke Tabs® (Aquarium Products, Glen Burnie MD) have also shown strong effect in warmer water at one tablet per ten gallons applied in two treatments 4 days apart. .

 

[sj022698]

If you are having this much trouble, I would suggest you first look at your water quality. What are your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH levels? Unfortunatley, leaving your tank sit for three weeks with water in it won't help build up bacteria. The bacteria need a source of food (ammonia and nitrite), and won't develop with out it.

Exactly what are you adding to your water right now? I understand the need to add medicine, but its best to treat things like ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and pH problems naturally, with out chemicals. Don't mess with the pH, your fish will do better in a slightly higher or lower pH as long as it is stable. Do water changes to handle the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Do it twice a day if you need to.

For medicines I would recomend you treat your tank wiht antibiotics, use both Maracyn and Maracyn 2. Fungus, cotton, and tail rot are all bacterial problems (swimming problems can be a bacterial problem wiht the swim blader as well). You say they look scaly, what exactly do you mean by that? Are their scales sticking out like a pine cone? What are the symptoms of the external parasites you are seeing?

I don't know the exact numbers because I'm at work and my wife's freaking out. We have given them some kind of ph treatment in the past that is supposed to lower it. I have all this written down but not with me. The alkolides are also a problem and nitrates as well. 2 water changes a day is ok? Should we do more than 25-30%?

Can I use the antibiotics with the meds I have in their currently. I don't know what the names of them are off the top of my head but I think the maracyn is the kind we are using...that or the jungle products. Scaly almost like they look like they are drying out. Not like a pine cone. the bala shark and the lepernous have the things that look like worms coming out of their faces.

 

[WILDER]

Good god that tank is a mess, the worms on the face do they have a forked tail, plus if you also have had internal parasites they can do alot of damage too, plus how did you treat them.

 

[sj022698]

Should I change like 50-75% of water tonight?

If so, what should I use to stablize the water conditions. Medicated stuff (can I use it with the medicines that are in there? Or something natural (what would that be?)


If I understand correctly, the ph is not that big of a deal, correct?

 

[tttnjfttt]

Stop the pH stuff, honestly, it is junk. I used to try using it in my fish tank when i first began and it would lower it only to bounce back up the next day, that will stress out the fish. How high is your pH? i have successfully kept fish that prefer acidic water in a pH of 8.0

Maracyn and Maracyn 2 can be combined, i have done that before. I'd be more worried about the bacterial infections at the moment, as they are highly lethal. I'm currently using copperSafe by Mardel, it is to treat parasites (i'm dealing wiht gill flukes), and i THINK it said it can be used with antibiotics, I will check to be sure

 

[sj022698]

I don't know about the fins being forked. My wife is not at the house to call. I just am having a hard time continuing to try to explain to my 3 year old daughter why her fish keep dying and I'm just trying to follow the advice of people that do it for a living.

So key is to getting the water stable, correct?
What is best to do so.

Just to let you know, I really appreciate your help!

 

[WILDER]

How are the fish as they sounds like they can't tolerate anymore meds, are they weak and pale.

 

[tttnjfttt]

Should I change like 50-75% of water tonight?

If so, what should I use to stablize the water conditions. Medicated stuff (can I use it with the medicines that are in there? Or something natural (what would that be?)


If I understand correctly, the ph is not that big of a deal, correct?

Don't do a 50% water change, that will be stressful to the fish. You could probably get away with a 20% change every 2 hours, which will help keep your wife happy because she is doing something.

The biggest concern with the pH is that it stays stable.

 

[WILDER]

The worms on the face of the fish do they have a forked tail.

 

[sj022698]

The worms on the face of the fish do they have a forked tail.

I don't know about the fins being forked. My wife is not at the house to call.

Also, when adding these meds, it says to remove the carbon filters. How long should those be out. Would that make a difference?