Will my platy die?

[ElegantScents.co.uk]

Sorry for the dramatic title, he's just really bothering me.

So, I'm a brand new mother of fishes.
Brand new tank. 280L tropical tank.
Tank has been up and ready for 2-3 days.
Used quick start and got our first fish today.
3 red platies, 3 blue and 5 black phantom tetras.

Temp is 27
2 large air rocks/curtains
Plenty of plants

Nitrate/Nitrite 0
GH - 8
KH 6
PH 6.7 (slowly bringing it up with pH up) (very slowly!)
CL 0.2

Now, the fish are doing great, still pretty quiet but there is one platy that is really bothering me.

All day, he has been against the side of the tank. Either swimming up and down the side vigarously or he's been right in the top corner at the surface.

All of the other fish have settled now, and they're all quiet to one side of the tank, I've turned the lights off. But this one platy is alone, at the other end of the tank at the surface.

I know it's early, and he still might settle but the first time I ever kept fish, the heater malfunctioned overnight and killed all of my fish, it has traumatised me.

But he is worrying me, being right at the surface and alone.
HELP!

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

When you say tank has been up and ready for 2-3 days, what do you mean? Did you cycle the tank, or just add the safestart?

I'd urge you to do a large water change right now if possible please, 70-75% of the total water volume, making sure to temperature match the replacement water to the tank water, and use a water conditioner. Do you have a water conditioner?

 

[AilyNC]

I know it takes time for fish to settle in but after my hectic start cycling my tank with fish in it... Have you checked Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate levels?
I added fish too quickly and the tank went a bit crazy. Had a awful time getting it under control.

 

[ElegantScents.co.uk]

The tank was filled with water, plants and decorations 2 days ago. I added a filter boost/quickstart at the same time, along with water conditioner.

Fish were put in around 8 hours ago now, I added some stress coat at the time and they have had 2 small meals of flakes and dried live.

Nitrite and nitrate are at 0.
I don't think I've got anything to test ammonia. I can get it in the morning.
I've only got the tetra test 6 in 1

The water does seem to be looking more cloudy than it did this afternoon.
I'm starting to fill buckets now ready to condition and heat.

 

[AilyNC]

The tank was filled with water, plants and decorations 2 days ago. I added a filter boost/quickstart at the same time, along with water conditioner.

Fish were put in around 8 hours ago now, I added some stress coat at the time and they have had 2 small meals of flakes and dried live.

Nitrite and nitrate are at 0.
I don't think I've got anything to test ammonia. I can get it in the morning.
I've only got the tetra test 6 in 1

The water does seem to be looking more cloudy than it did this afternoon.
I'm starting to fill buckets now ready to condition and heat.

The API Master Kit is worth picking up but API also do an Ammonia tester. The strips just aren't very accurate compared to the liquid test.

 

[ElegantScents.co.uk]

So I've only managed to do a 20% water change with the aqua safe we've got left.
I'll do another shopping trip tomorrow.

Platy was still fixed to the top corner but has since come down and is hiding with the tetras. He's eaten though.

I feel I've made a huge, beginner mistake though.
I already ordered some rainbow fish, some gourami and a pleco to come next Thursday.
They will be my final fish for this tank.
I don't know if its too soon to be adding more.

Can I ask 3 more questions, because you all are actually amazing me with your knowledge...
How often do I need to be doing water changes this early on?

I've an aqua one osellaris 850 External for this 280L tank. Is the filter big enough and OK with monthly changes?

Do I need a current generator/wave maker with the fish I've got?
I know air filters don't create current.


I'm sure I'll have many more posts in the upcoming months, I'm doing some bedtime reading through as many of yours I can read up on!

Thankyou all again

 

[AilyNC]

Ask all the questions. This forum is a great help. My tank crashed and without the help of @AdoraBelle Dearheart @PheonixKingZ @essjay @Retired Viking and others I would have lost more fish.

Hop into the search function and look up fish in Cycle advice. If you see my previous threads you'll see I had to do daily 75% water changes for about 2 weeks to get my tank under control. Lots of us make beginner mistakes, get bad advice and come here for help. You're here early so you've time to get a handle on things.

When you get more water conditioner pick up API Tap Water Conditioner if you can & only use that, the API Master Kit tests (they are pricey but last 800 tests!) & some easy quick growing plants. I got Salvinia, Anubis, Amazon Sword & Elodea. The plants gobble up ammonia and help your tank to cycle.

You'll see Cycle come up lots so read the thread on that to understand what's happening. Cycling a tank is really important.

Your aim is to test daily the ammonia, nitrite & nitrate levels and do 75% water changes if ammonia and/or Nitrite is above 0 and Nitrate above 20. Once those levels are under control your water changes become less frequent, you get an idea of how often to test and change. Though I think weekly big water changes are still recommended.

It's a bit overwhelming at first but take it a day at time and a step at a time. Ask advice. @Ch4rlie @NCaquatics @Byron and @Deanasue have great knowledge too.

 

[AilyNC]

This explains the Nitrogen Cycle:

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

This might be where you are at:

Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part I

RESCUING A FISH IN CYCLE GONE WILD Part I If you are reading this it means you have tried to cycle your tank using fish and have run into problems and don’t know what to do. Before we begin to discuss the potential solutions, we would like to make it clear that we do not recommend to...

www.fishforums.net

This was me cycling a tank with fish:

Few fish in Cycle questions

I find it tricky to read the API Master Kit but is it ok that my nitrates are so high but nitrite & Ammonia low? Is that normal for the fish in Cycle? Why is my CO2 zero with plants? Why is my fresh tap water showing lower PH than tank water? I'm doing daily 75% water changes and have Anubis...

www.fishforums.net

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

So I've only managed to do a 20% water change with the aqua safe we've got left.
I'll do another shopping trip tomorrow.

Platy was still fixed to the top corner but has since come down and is hiding with the tetras. He's eaten though.

I feel I've made a huge, beginner mistake though.
I already ordered some rainbow fish, some gourami and a pleco to come next Thursday.
They will be my final fish for this tank.
I don't know if its too soon to be adding more.

Can I ask 3 more questions, because you all are actually amazing me with your knowledge...
How often do I need to be doing water changes this early on?

I've an aqua one osellaris 850 External for this 280L tank. Is the filter big enough and OK with monthly changes?

Do I need a current generator/wave maker with the fish I've got?
I know air filters don't create current.


I'm sure I'll have many more posts in the upcoming months, I'm doing some bedtime reading through as many of yours I can read up on!

Thankyou all again

Is it possible to cancel or postpone the order?

Also don't feed the fish again yet. Not until you've picked up an accurate test kit and have water conditioner. Fish can go days without food, and over feeding is a common mistake and a big risk in an uncycled tank. Give a small amount every other day for now, only enough for them to eat within three minutes, given a little at a time. If any hits the substrate, you've added too much. Remember that a fishes stomach is only the size of its eye.


Your tank isn't cycled yet, and you're now going to need to do a fish-in cycle with the fish you already have in there. It isn't ideal to cycle a tank with fish in, and the more fish you add, the more bioload you create and work you're going to have to do it prevent the water killing the fish. Plus more fish going through the stress of a fish in cycle. When we stock a tank, we cycle first, then add first gradually in small groups spaced apart, to give the bacteria colonies time to grow to meet the demands of the bioload. Too many fish added at once can quickly lead to huge ammonia spikes and losing the whole tank.

You don't need a wave maker or current generator at this point. Most urgently you're going to need water conditioner and an accurate water testing kit - the API Freshwater Master test kit is the gold standard in the hobby because of its accuracy, but other liquid kits are also more accurate than the dip strips. To keep these fish alive through the cycle, you need to be able to test for ammonia/nitrites/nitrates and get accurate results. If you can also get hold of some fast growing live plants, especially floating plants like frogbit, water lettuce or salvinia, or fast growing stem plants like elodea, anacharis, hornwort or water wisteria, they not only help the fish feel safe and shaded as they prefer, but the plants process a lot of ammonia, helping to keep the water safe and cycle the tank faster. Which plants do you already have? If you're not sure, you can upload photos and someone will be able to ID them for you.

Will ask @essjay or @Ch4rlie to weigh in on the filter, not one i'm familiar with.


Water changes- how often you need to do them at the moment will depend on your test results. You're likely going to need to do a lot for the first few weeks, especially if you can't cancel the order for the rainbowfish, pleco and gourami. You'll need to do water tests and change whenever there's a reading for ammonia or nitrites, or when nitrates reach 20ppm or more. This might mean daily changes while the tank is cycling. Once it's cycled, weekly 50-75% water changes are good tank husbandry, and most of us keep a routine around those percentages, that often. There are so variables though, it depends on your stocking, type of fish, size of tank etc. An overstocked 5 gallon might need 2-3 water changes a week, while a lightly stocked 75 gallon would likely be fine with 50% once a week.

 

[ElegantScents.co.uk]

Thankyou so so much for your advice, truly.
You must hear these issues over and over and you've answered beautifully and not made me feel daft!

The fish are doing alright this morning. The platy was still in the corner, but when I put the lights on, he went down to the other side behind the plants with his platy & tetra friends.
Tetras have come out to play also.

Im doing another shop this morning, I'll do a big water change this afternoon.

I've got 6 bunches of plants in. Echinodorous??
When I drop the water right down this afternoon, do i take the fish out and put them in buckets while I clean or leave them in?
I don't want to stress them more by moving them, if I can avoid it

I'm going to root the plants right down and make sure they're still healthy.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Leave the fish in the tank, you're right that moving them will stress them out, and it's not needed, they can cope for the fe minutes the water level is that low

Echinodorus are good, fast growing plants, also known as Amazon Sword plants. They're heavy root feeders though, so you'll need some root tabs for fertiliser for them. Looking at yours, I think they've been grown emmersed (roots in water, plant and leaves above water)... Now this isn't a problem exactly, lots of aquatic plants are grown this way. But it does mean that the current leaves will likely die back, and you'll think your plants have died (and the decaying leaves can also produce ammonia) as the plant adapts to being completely submersed, and puts out new leaves adapted to live underwater. So if they start going brown and dying back, leave them in there! It takes a few weeks for them to adapt. Don't shove them too far under the substrate, leave the crown that all the leaves are coming from above the substrate. Amazon swords put out huge networks of roots, so they'll anchor themselves in no time,and you don't want the crown -being where all the new leaves are coming from - buried under gravel.

If you can get floating plants today, all the better. Frogbit, water lettuce, salvinia- all are good. See how open and exposed the fish are when they're at the surface? This makes a lot of fish nervous, they're vulnerable to predators when in open water, and their natural waterways are usually covered in floating plants and overhanging vegetation, creating shade and hiding spots. Floating plants are also fantastic at sucking up ammonia out of the water, helping to stabilise the tank and do the hard work while your swords are still adapting to submersed growth.

Or, bunches of the fast growing stem plants I mentioned before, hornwort, anacharis, water wisteria etc can be left floating, providing cover and helping to reduce ammonia too. Even if you only keep those as a temporary measure while you help cycle the tank or get hold of plants that you prefer, they can help a great deal in the meantime. Gourami are also very fond of floating plant cover, I'd say it's an essential for them.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Thankyou so so much for your advice, truly.
You must hear these issues over and over and you've answered beautifully and not made me feel daft!

The fish are doing alright this morning. The platy was still in the corner, but when I put the lights on, he went down to the other side behind the plants with his platy & tetra friends.
Tetras have come out to play also.

Im doing another shop this morning, I'll do a big water change this afternoon.

I've got 6 bunches of plants in. Echinodorous??
When I drop the water right down this afternoon, do i take the fish out and put them in buckets while I clean or leave them in?
I don't want to stress them more by moving them, if I can avoid it

I'm going to root the plants right down and make sure they're still healthy.

Ah, I just had a better look at the photos of the swords, and saw that they're still in their pots. They'll grow much better if you take them out of the pots and remove the rockwool, that's just a growing medium. Will link a video about how to remove it, best to remove the plant from the pot, then peel the rockwool away in thin strips, trying not to damage the roots too much, but also don't panic if a few little bits come away.

Then plant the sword directly in the substrate, leaving the crown above the gravel as mentioned, and put a root tab in the gravel, push it into the roots as best you can. The plants will grow better directly in the substrate, they can spread their roots out and gather nutrients better than if they're constrained in a pot
Go to 4:44 on this video to see how to remove the rockwool

 

[ElegantScents.co.uk]

Ah, I just had a better look at the photos of the swords, and saw that they're still in their pots. They'll grow much better if you take them out of the pots and remove the rockwool, that's just a growing medium. Will link a video about how to remove it, best to remove the plant from the pot, then peel the rockwool away in thin strips, trying not to damage the roots too much, but also don't panic if a few little bits come away.

Then plant the sword directly in the substrate, leaving the crown above the gravel as mentioned, and put a root tab in the gravel, push it into the roots as best you can. The plants will grow better directly in the substrate, they can spread their roots out and gather nutrients better than if they're constrained in a pot
Go to 4:44 on this video to see how to remove the rockwool

Thankyou so much.
So I'm OK just to remove the dying leaves and wait for them to adjust to underwater life.

I've got plant boost and liquid Co2.
Should I be using them at this point.
My pH this morning is 6.7. I'm raising it very slowly, tap water pH is 6

 

[Ch4rlie]

I feel I've made a huge, beginner mistake though.
I already ordered some rainbow fish, some gourami and a pleco to come next Thursday.
They will be my final fish for this tank.
I don't know if its too soon to be adding more.

Most of us all have made mistakes when we first started the hobby, theres lots of information to take in and it's certainly a huge leraning curve!

I've certainly made my fair share of mistakes thats for sure!

Yes, its definitely too soon to be adding more fish at this stage, as others have alraedy mentioned and given good advice, you are in the stage of what is known as "Fish In Cycling", basically means monitoring the water parameters every day and doing large water changes accordingly until the tank, filter and plants makes a colony of beneficial bacteria which will then take over the controlling of ammonia and nitrite, but for now, you are controlling the ammonia and nitrite amounts by doing large water changes.

A fair amount of work doing large water changes but worth it in the end when you've successfully cycled the tank.

FYI ammonia is what fish breathes and excretes into the water column. By breathing in oxygen from the water they breathe out ammonia, fish poop is basically ammonia.

Ammonia is toxic to fish unfortunately and they are breathing this into their bodies everytime there is ammonia in the water column, so by doing water changes, you are reducing the amount of ammonia thats present tin the tank.

Ammonia can also be reduced by the plants as they consume ammonia and turn this into oxygen! So live plants are great all round for the aquarium.

I've an aqua one osellaris 850 External for this 280L tank. Is the filter big enough and OK with monthly changes?

Am not particularly familiar with this filter, having done quick research on internet, it looks like this filter is suitable for tanks of 100 to 250 litres, not ideal since your tank is 280 litres but not the worst. Basically means youll need to maintain the filter a little more regularly once tank is cycled to keep the flow from the filter to the tank for your livestock.

Once the tank has cycled, it's worth maintaining the filter every 2 weeks or so by simply rinsing some of the filter sponge media into old tank water in a bucket, this helps to get rid of any gunk thats accumulated in the sponge media, this is what slows down the water flow going through the filter. So by clearing the sponge of gunk that helps the flow from filter into the tank stays nice and high.

So for now, keep that filter, it will do the job just fine for the momnet. Perhaps in the future, you can then revise on getting a larger filter but really don't worry about it at the moment, as you have plenty on your plate right now other than worrying about the filter size for now.

I don't think I've got anything to test ammonia. I can get it in the morning.
I've only got the tetra test 6 in 1

The water does seem to be looking more cloudy than it did this afternoon.

Tetra 6 in 1 are not the best as others already mentioned.

API Freshwater Master kit is recommended, bit more pricey but worth it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000255NCI/?tag=


Cloudy water is a sign of bacterial bloom, this means your tank is starting to cycle and gettting beneficial bacteria going, this is just the start and perfectly normal.

This cloudy water WILL go away of its own accord so don't worry about that at all.

So I'm OK just to remove the dying leaves and wait for them to adjust to underwater life.

I've got plant boost and liquid Co2.
Should I be using them at this point.
My pH this morning is 6.7. I'm raising it very slowly, tap water pH is 6

Yes, you are perfectly fine to remove dying and dead leaves, in fact it's better to do this as dead leaves will produce more ammonia and this is not what you want.

Dont use the plant boost or liquid c02 for the moment, this may have an adverse effect on your cycling process, leave well alone for now.

Ph is fine, it hovering around neutral which is good. Don't worry about pH.

 

[Essjay]

I've got plant boost and liquid Co2.

Please do not use the liquid CO2. It is glutaraldehyde, a strong disinfectant which is used for sterilising surgical equipment and in embalming fluid amongst other things. It has no place in a tank with fish.



The one thing in your favour is the size of the tank. The bigger the tank, the more water there is to dilute ammonia and nitrite during cycling. If you can delay the order of the new fish it will help greatly.

The others have given you some great advice. In summary:
Test for ammonia (once you have a tester) and nitrite every day and do a water change whenever they read above zero.
Feed the fish once every 3 days
I know you have some plants, but floating plants are very good at taking up ammonia from the water, even elodea left to float (you can remove it once the tank is cycled)
Tetra Safe Start is the most highly recommended bacterial booster.



I have taken the liberty of looking for your water hardness - it is 1.8 dH and 32 ppm. This is very soft water which goes with the low pH. You do not need to alter the pH, But you do need to keep soft water fish. In your list of fish, platies and psossibly the rainbowfish need hard water and will not do well in water this soft. Unless the rainbowfish on order are one of the odd couple of soft water rainbows I would see if you can cancel them as they will not do well.



You mentioned monthy water changes - once the tank is cycled, you should be changing at least 50% of the water every week.