Which One?

[Azaezl]

Hi,

I'm looking to get a plec(or 2) for my tank. I have a 240L with 2 senegalus and 2 gouramis in.

I wasn't sure whether to go for a common plec or 2 smaller bristlenoses? Or if someone could suggest a different type, my lfs has some royal plecs in(but they don't look like royals to me). Apart from those I haven't seen any in there ever! So I'd have to buy from an online retailer or I know of someone local whose bristlenoses are always breeding so they are easy enough to get.

Also is it best to have 1 or 2, wasn't sure if they got lonely.

Thanks

 

[LisaLQ]

Aren't birchirs (I'm assuming that's what you mean by senegalus) predatory? If so, you'd want to go for a bigger plec, and TBH in a 240l tank, you dont have room for a bigger common.

 

[Azaezl]

Their suppose to be predatory but mine are very placid, to the point my 2" gourami can nibble at a piece of prawn the largest bichir has in it's mouth. Depending on how big the plec is when I buy it I'll put it in with my corys until it grows big enough for the bichir tank.

I think I'll go with the bristles if a commmon is too big, don't want to overcrowd my tank, unless you can suggest anything more suitable?

Thanks for your help

 

[smithrc]

Depending on actual tank dimensions, 240L should be big enough for a common...

I wouldnt have a problem keeping our common in our 240L... We dont, but would be happy to if the need arose.
Its a Rio 240 - 120 x 40 x 55. (thats approx 48" x 16" x 22").

A gibby however would be to big.

 

[LisaLQ]

A common needs a minimum of 4ft x 18" x 18", and that's presuming it doesn't get to 18", which they can do, in which case the absolute min would be a 4 x 2 x 2ft. Preferably 5ft though.

 

[Azaezl]

Yeah mine's a rio 240 as well, bristle nose it is then, would you suggest just 1 or would 2 be best?

 

[smithrc]

A common needs a minimum of 4ft x 18" x 18", and that's presuming it doesn't get to 18", which they can do, in which case the absolute min would be a 4 x 2 x 2ft. Preferably 5ft though.

I've never seen an 18" common... most max out at 10-12"
I'm not saying its not possible - just not normal.

Its all well and good speccing these huge tanks for the supposed maximum sizes but its not possible.
In a perfect world they would all go in 6x2x2's but even I don't have anything that size.

Commons get a hard time for getting big - But they really don't all get to the 18" that some seem to think.
(we wont blame "stunting" here either as ours has lived its life in a 48x16x16 untill it was about 9" then it moved to our 350L)

Its starting to get silly and unpractical on here recently - I've seen a few posts stating that they can get to 2ft!
Its OK to warn new people what they have got and how big they are likely to get BUT Its getting out of hand.

The most important factor to keep bigger plecs healthy and growing is filtration. the more the merrier.
If the Rio 240 still has the standard filter in it - I'd look at taking it out and replacing with a decent external.
We are currently running a filter for upto a 500L tank... twice the volume of the tank.

 

[Azaezl]

The filter I have is an eheim aqua pro 2, my tank is second hand and I know nothing about external filters, is this filter ok? Seems to be doing a good job anyway.

 

[LisaLQ]

I've never seen an 18" common... most max out at 10-12"
I'm not saying its not possible - just not normal.

Its all well and good speccing these huge tanks for the supposed maximum sizes but its not possible.
In a perfect world they would all go in 6x2x2's but even I don't have anything that size.

Commons get a hard time for getting big - But they really don't all get to the 18" that some seem to think.
(we wont blame "stunting" here either as ours has lived its life in a 48x16x16 untill it was about 9" then it moved to our 350L)

Its starting to get silly and unpractical on here recently - I've seen a few posts stating that they can get to 2ft!
Its OK to warn new people what they have got and how big they are likely to get BUT Its getting out of hand.

The most important factor to keep bigger plecs healthy and growing is filtration. the more the merrier.
If the Rio 240 still has the standard filter in it - I'd look at taking it out and replacing with a decent external.
We are currently running a filter for upto a 500L tank... twice the volume of the tank.

They cant get to 2ft, but they can - and do regularly with the right care - get to 18". I've kept two over 12", one was nearing 18". I've seen many 15" or over in the LFS, and many pics online also.

Just because you cant provide that, and yours didn't, doesn't mean that the facts change

These plecs can and do get to 18", regularly over 12" (usually around 15"), 10" is a particularly small adult and not one I'd think was the norm. In the right tank with the right care, these plecs are big - if they're not getting that big in someone's tank, I'd be thinking they may be overcrowded.

Whilst many people can get away with overstocking their plecs, that doesn't mean it should be recommended. We've spoken before about our differences in stocking level views, while it's nice yours do so well in less than what they require, we shouldn't be misleading people into thinking they can get away with that with a common plec.

Hang on while I go cram another gibby in my BiOrb...

 

[smithrc]

I didnt see that one coming... I've actually had to take a few minutes to calm down...

Having differing opinions is one thing...
But a personal attack with someone accusing me of not providing the right care for my plecs is my que to leave...

No where have i aggressively expressed my differing views with anyone on the forum... There was no need for it in a reply.
I was not actually referring to any posts by you Lisa, I respect you as a plec keeper and am shocked.

What i was referring to (not that it appears to matter) is that what gets passed down always gets exaggerated to prove a point - new people are starting to offer advice on here form what they have read and heard and its getting the exaggeration factor applied...

Good luck what ever you choose to keep in the tank - It'll have a great life in the 240 assuming its not something silly big.
We have a trio of breeding Starlights in our 240 now, so one might be too much.

I'm done here.




[edit for spelling]

 

[Azaezl]

One thing I have to say is I HATE those biorbs, I think they are so ugly and just an expensive goldfish bowl! That's just my opinion though, I'm sure alot of people think they are great because you can get 60litre ones. I also hate those new vivo tanks!

 

[Murpheus]

Please don't do it smithrc. It would be a crying shame.

In my very short time on these forums I found you to be very friendly & extremly helpful to those less well informed such as myself.

 

[LisaLQ]

I didnt see that one coming... I've actually had to take a few minutes to calm down...

Having differing opinions is one thing...
But a personal attack with someone accusing me of not providing the right care for my plecs is my que to leave...

No where have i aggressively expressed my differing views with anyone on the forum... There was no need for it in a reply.
I was not actually referring to any posts by you Lisa, I respect you as a plec keeper and am shocked.

What i was referring to (not that it appears to matter) is that what gets passed down always gets exaggerated to prove a point - new people are starting to offer advice on here form what they have read and heard and its getting the exaggeration factor applied...

Good luck what ever you choose to keep in the tank - It'll have a great life in the 240 assuming its not something silly big.
We have a trio of breeding Starlights in our 240 now, so one might be too much.

I'm done here.




[edit for spelling]

I have to apologise if you feel that my post was enough to make you leave, on that part I am very sorry. But I was purely responding to what I read as a personal attack on me - the direct part about the 6ft tank, the part about my silly posts getting out of hand and my info being OTT - when all I was doing was handing out the correct info on these fish. Ask any plec forum, and you'll find many many people with 12-18" common plecs - they are the norm - there was no lie in that! Only today I saw piccies of a 17" albino common - not on a "record breaking plec" thread, just by browsing a photo gallery. Like I said, I've owned a couple myself in the past. When I used to be able to visit the LFS, I'd regularly see 12", 15" or more common plecs in there - handed in because somenoe was told they'd only get to 8", or 10", or whatever - and they just kept on growing.

I am very sorry if you were offended - but I was personally very offended and upset by your posts - suggesting my info was silly and over the top - when I'm posting from experience. As you said, your plec didn't reach that size - mine did, as did/do many others.

Many folks say common plecs get to 24" because technically they can, I have in fact seen pics of 2ft commons - but they were raised in breeding ponds in another country - so that's not the norm, and I did say that. I do apologise for offending you - but I cant go against what I believe purely to keep from offending someone. 10" is either a rather small common, or one that's not fully grown yet. We all know fish are stunted when they're kept in tanks too small for them. But I guess I should have kept schtum and let someone make a big mistake instead. And then seen another ad of many for a big plec needing a good home.

As I said, your plecs are obviously happy and it works for you - but we shouldn't be saying that plecs usually only get to 10" when that's only your personal experience, and although that happened in your case - it's quite frankly not the whole truth - and unfair on people who may go out and buy one only to end up with a 15" plus plec they need to rehome - and cant - because there's so many in LFS needing homes as it is - you cant even give them away.

As you know, my common came to me from someone who kept him in a 2ft tank - no fault of their own, they didn't know better. He was 2 years old and only 7". He's now heading for 10", just from being in a decent sized tank for the last two months.

I really resent the hints that sillyness and snobbery leads to me posting inaccurate care info - yes I have a 6ft tank for my plecs, but I didn't pay an arm and a leg for it - and it's not as if I said someone needed a 6ft tank for theirs. I only said they needed a 4ft x 18" x 18" - enough for a 15" average common to turn around in. If it were me, yes I'd go bigger, but I do appreciate some folks cant due to lack of space.

I hope you take a breather, realise we're entitled to different views - and in the morning come back and decide to stay. I apologise again if my messages really upset you that much - but you have to see how yours upset me too - I dont post things off the top of my head, and I'm not silly - and I dont have my head in the clouds thinking everyone with a common should have a 6ft tank - words which you put into my mouth.

 

[smithrc]

I ment the post folks...

I'm slightly more mature than that.

 

[KathyM]

PC lists liposarcus pardalis as reaching 13.8" standard length (that's without the tail). However, there are many reports of "commons" getting a fair bit bigger than that. It is possible these are liposarcus/pterygoplichthys disjunctivus, or very large liposarcus pardalis. I've seen much bigger "commons" than 12" regularly, they're not rare by a long shot.

Not disputing that some may even out at 10-12" but in the long run, it's best to be on the safe side. I have a 300l tank and in my (personal) opinion it's not big enough for a large common.

Some good alternatives would be a Rusty (L077), which maxes out at 8-10" (8" being more common), a Green Phatom (L200) which reaches about 7", and there are lots more suggestions in the pinned topic at the top of the thread.