Which Co2 Kit For Eleocharis Acicularis?

[Maikash]

Hello everyone.
 
 
Here is the background story of my tank : http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/424567-getting-back-into-fishkeeping-after-a-disastrous-first-attempt-need-some-help/page-2
 
I have just finished cycling the tank and need some advice from you knowledgeable people about plants.
 
Dont really know much about aquarium plants but im doing my research.
 
This is what i have in mind :
 
Flame moss, xmas moss, java moss
Twisted Vallis, Vallis Nana
May be some Java Fern or Amazon swords or may be you can recommend something else?
 
I really have my heart set on Eleocharis Acicularis to get a sort of carpet in my tank. I have read a lot of threads on this. Some say you need co2 kits some say you dont.
 
If i do which co2 kit would you recommend? Considering the ease of use (Everything sounds so complicated)
 
Tank is 110 litres Juwel Rekord 800. Lights are 2 T5's 24watt each. Stock filter, heater, pump etc. Substrate is black super naturals by Caribsea.
 
I will be ordering Ei starter kit for plants. Dont mind getting any other ferts/liquids you guys suggest. Do i need to change/add anything?
 
I am VERY new to all this so any help would be great.
 
Thank you.

 

[levahe]

For a co2 kit I recommend building a diy system, see http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/416755-pressurized-co2-equipment-flow-and-fertilization/ for details.
Its easier than it looks to put together and for your size tank cheaper to run. The ei starter kit for ferts is perfect and easy to use.

 

[daizeUK]

You can grow most of those plants quite happily without CO2 but I don't have any experience with eleocharis.  I would hazard a guess that a nice carpet would be easier with CO2.
 
If you are planning to dose EI then definitely add CO2 otherwise all those ferts will be wasted!
 
I use EasyCarbo liquid carbon myself but if you are planning to grow vallis this probably isn't a great idea as glutaraldehyde will melt vallis leaves.  CO2 gas is probably your best way forward.
 
Beyond that, I can't recommend much I'm afraid.  I'm only recently toying with the idea of adding CO2 gas myself.  One thing I would caution is that a lot of people recommend diy CO2 canister setups but they can be dangerous.  Personally I won't have a CO2 canister in the house that isn't intended for the purpose, certainly not with my young kids around.

 

[levahe]

You can grow most of those plants quite happily without CO2 but I don't have any experience with eleocharis.  I would hazard a guess that a nice carpet would be easier with CO2.
 
If you are planning to dose EI then definitely add CO2 otherwise all those ferts will be wasted!
 
I use EasyCarbo liquid carbon myself but if you are planning to grow vallis this probably isn't a great idea as glutaraldehyde will melt vallis leaves.  CO2 gas is probably your best way forward.
 
Beyond that, I can't recommend much I'm afraid.  I'm only recently toying with the idea of adding CO2 gas myself.  One thing I would caution is that a lot of people recommend diy CO2 canister setups but they can be dangerous.  Personally I won't have a CO2 canister in the house that isn't intended for the purpose, certainly not with my young kids around.

They really aren't dangerous, its pretty daunting to have a high pressure vessel in your house but if they are secured properly from falling over the risk is none. The fire extinguishers are exactly the same as the bottles that come with the kits you can buy such as jbl etc.. With only two differences - the fire extinguisher is bigger, and the valve is different . thats it!
You wont regret going pressureised if you enjoy planted tanks its so worth it

 

[Lunar Jetman]

If you are going CO2 you'll also need to make sure you have a good flow rate in your tank so you need to have a look at your filter and see if it's up to the job, as well as thinking about a powerhead of sorts.
 
Ideally you want a turnover of 10x, so if your filter's turnover is 550lph for example, with your tank you'd be getting a rate of 5x.

 

[Maikash]

For a co2 kit I recommend building a diy system, see http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/416755-pressurized-co2-equipment-flow-and-fertilization/ for details.
Its easier than it looks to put together and for your size tank cheaper to run. The ei starter kit for ferts is perfect and easy to use.

 
 
Thank you lehave. Just had a look at the link and must admit for a moment i thought id end up killing myself having a go at that lol. Now i see why you said "its easier thatn it looks"

Looking at the shopping list the cost is gonna run up to hundreds even with a DIY system

 

You can grow most of those plants quite happily without CO2 but I don't have any experience with eleocharis.  I would hazard a guess that a nice carpet would be easier with CO2.
 
If you are planning to dose EI then definitely add CO2 otherwise all those ferts will be wasted!
 
I use EasyCarbo liquid carbon myself but if you are planning to grow vallis this probably isn't a great idea as glutaraldehyde will melt vallis leaves.  CO2 gas is probably your best way forward.
 
Beyond that, I can't recommend much I'm afraid.  I'm only recently toying with the idea of adding CO2 gas myself.  One thing I would caution is that a lot of people recommend diy CO2 canister setups but they can be dangerous.  Personally I won't have a CO2 canister in the house that isn't intended for the purpose, certainly not with my young kids around.

 
 
Thanks Daize. I have done a bit more research on co2 stuff and i think i might be better off without it for now as it surely is very complicated for a beginner. I had looked at fluval and tropica co2 kits but wasn't aware that there "plenty" of other bits i'd need to buy which isn't fair i recon coz a "kit" should mean everything supplied. 
 
 
I am gonna have a go at growing this plants without co2. Might have to give up on Eleocharis Acicularis. I have already oredered it. If it doesnt grow it doesnt grow.
 
This is what i have ordered from different places :
 
1x Vallisneria spiralis 'Tiger'
1x Vallisneria nana
1x Taiwan Moss Cup 
1x Christmas Moss Cup
1x Eleocharis acicularis 
1x Eleocharis sp 
1x Flame Moss
5 X Twisted Vallis Vallisneria spiralis
 
Do you think these plants will grow without co2 and the lighting i have if we take the eleocharis out of the equation?
 
Please do let me know. Which ferts/tabs do i get for these without co2. If Ei ferts are of no use without co2 then i won't order it. What else to get in that case to help grow these plants?
 
Thanks again. Appreciate your help

 
 

If you are going CO2 you'll also need to make sure you have a good flow rate in your tank so you need to have a look at your filter and see if it's up to the job, as well as thinking about a powerhead of sorts.
 
Ideally you want a turnover of 10x, so if your filter's turnover is 550lph for example, with your tank you'd be getting a rate of 5x.

 
Thanks LJ.
 
Just had a look at tech specs of my filter and it "is" 550lph. I am having second thoughts about going co2 way as you can see from my comments above. This co2 business is quite overwhelming. Might be just be being a noob. I am still trying to find a kit which would supply "everything" needed and would be easy to use as not to add hours of maintenance on top of the current quota.
 
Cost wise i am happy to spend £100-£200 possibly more if i can get everything in a bundle. Your tip about replacing the filter is very useful. Now i know what else i might need. Thank you so much mate. 
 
Cheers

 

[daizeUK]

Eleocharis should be okay without CO2, you just might find it harder to get that nice carpet effect you were hoping for.
 
With no CO2 all you need is trace ferts to dose once a week with your water change.
You can either buy a bottle of liquid pre-made ferts like Flourish comprehensive (usually just called Seachem Flourish) or Easylife Profito or Neutro T.
Alternatively if you think you might try EI dosing in the future then it might be cheaper in the long run to get the EI kit which will include a trace mix anyway, the downside is you have to mix it into a solution yourself.

 

[Maikash]

Eleocharis should be okay without CO2, you just might find it harder to get that nice carpet effect you were hoping for.
 
With no CO2 all you need is trace ferts to dose once a week with your water change.
You can either buy a bottle of liquid pre-made ferts like Flourish comprehensive (usually just called Seachem Flourish) or Easylife Profito or Neutro T.
Alternatively if you think you might try EI dosing in the future then it might be cheaper in the long run to get the EI kit which will include a trace mix anyway, the downside is you have to mix it into a solution yourself.

 
 
Nice one Daize. Thanks.
 
I'll get Seachem Flourish then
 
Yeh dont mind if i dont get the carpet. Will try it any one if not then i'll do a java moss carpet.

 

[ian]

It's difficult to say that they 'will' grow without any type of carbon source. This is depending on the op's lighting and the Juwel record has quite hight lighting. 2x 24 w t5's and personally I'd be looking at maybe some liquid carbon just because I think you'll run into algae troubles without, even with the easy plants.
Lighting is the driving force, if you have high light, it doesn't matter what plants you have they will struggle without the building blocks to compliment the light (c02).
The eleocharis will also do better with a little carbon input.

 

[Maikash]

It's difficult to say that they 'will' grow without any type of carbon source. This is depending on the op's lighting and the Juwel record has quite hight lighting. 2x 24 w t5's and personally I'd be looking at maybe some liquid carbon just because I think you'll run into algae troubles without, even with the easy plants.
Lighting is the driving force, if you have high light, it doesn't matter what plants you have they will struggle without the building blocks to compliment the light (c02).
The eleocharis will also do better with a little carbon input.

 
 
Thanks Ian.
 
I have since changed one 24watt to 18watt tube. I think its a t8. IS it still high? what would be the ideal lighting for these plants?
 
The trouble is i got  3 differnet vallis and as Daize said liquid carbon will kill the vallis. Now i am doubly confused. Co2 is definitely beyond me at this point. 
 
I certainly dont mind getting liquid carbon. 
 
If theres no middle way then i might have to consider taking the vallis out

 

[levahe]

Some people have success with liquid carbon and Vallis, I think the key to success is to introduce the liquid carbon gradually and increase the dose a bit each week until you are at the recommended daily dose

 

[Maikash]

Some people have success with liquid carbon and Vallis, I think the key to success is to introduce the liquid carbon gradually and increase the dose a bit each week until you are at the recommended daily dose

 
Thanks for your help.I will get liquid carbon and try it. Also ordered Ei starter kit and lets see how i get on with.