When To Euthanize Betta

[GuppyGoddess]

Hi everyone,

I've had a double tail betta since last August (about nine months). His tail has slowly deteriorated to the point where the top part of the double tail is barely there. I've tried anti-biotics and nothing has worked. Even doing 100% water changes haven't helped and keeping the ammonia away hasn't worked.

He also has a slight curve to his spine when I look down on him in the water. He had that when I brought him home.

At this point I do not think I can heal his tail. Question is, do you guys think he's in actual pain? I'm not sure what to do now. I don't want to euthanize him, yet I am wondering how much his quality of life is diminished to the point where I should put him down.

Thanks for advice.

 

[kizno1]

i would give him longer aslong as hes still eating and moving about. when he stops eating and swimming and just lays there then i think it will be time.how are you planning on euthanizing him?

 

[kelly528]

Lets run through this one more time with a fresh set of eyes. Bear with me and answer the questions.

First of all, are you absolutely certain beyond a doubt that it's fin rot? Some bettas will bit their tails to stumps.

Secondly, what antibiotics have you tried?

How big is the tank?

Cycled or uncycled?

How often do you clean it?

How much water do you change?

 

[GuppyGoddess]

Lets run through this one more time with a fresh set of eyes. Bear with me and answer the questions.

First of all, are you absolutely certain beyond a doubt that it's fin rot? Some bettas will bit their tails to stumps.

Secondly, what antibiotics have you tried?

How big is the tank?

Cycled or uncycled?

How often do you clean it?

How much water do you change?

The reason I think it's fin rot is because the tips are black.
Tried tetracycline
5-gallon
uncycled
25-50% change every four days

He looks pretty bad now. He's swimming around but when at the top tipped ever so slightly at an angle.

 

[kelly528]

The reason I think it's fin rot is because the tips are black.
Tried tetracycline
5-gallon
uncycled
25-50% change every four days

He looks pretty bad now. He's swimming around but when at the top tipped ever so slightly at an angle.

Oh dear that does sound like fin rot. Not sure how often you do 100% cleanings but I think I see your problem.

Uncycled tanks do need to be cleaned 100% when you clean them. Why?

For example, say your betta produces .25ppm of ammonia per day. You change the water 50% daily...

Day 1: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .25 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .125 ppm ammonia.
Day 2: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .38 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .19 ppm of ammonia.
Day 3: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .44 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .22 ppm of ammonia.
Day 4: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .48 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .24 ppm of ammonia.
Day 5: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .5 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .25 ppm of ammonia.

So from day 5 onwards, even with daily water changes your betta's tank will be stuck at .25 ppm!

Thats just an example but the math will be similar for your tank (assuming you only ever do PWCs) and could be causing big problems with your water chemistry.


For treatment I would try a different antibiotic (Maracyn 2 perhaps), up the water changes to 100% and keep an eye out for regrowth

 

[Assaye]

I agree with Kelly. What I would do is 50% every day (if tests show it's needed) or every other day, and then 100% every 3-4 days.

That's what I do to keep my isolation tank ammonia free when I run it without a filter

 

[GuppyGoddess]

The reason I think it's fin rot is because the tips are black.
Tried tetracycline
5-gallon
uncycled
25-50% change every four days

He looks pretty bad now. He's swimming around but when at the top tipped ever so slightly at an angle.

Oh dear that does sound like fin rot. Not sure how often you do 100% cleanings but I think I see your problem.

Uncycled tanks do need to be cleaned 100% when you clean them. Why?

For example, say your betta produces .25ppm of ammonia per day. You change the water 50% daily...

Day 1: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .25 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .125 ppm ammonia.
Day 2: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .38 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .19 ppm of ammonia.
Day 3: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .44 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .22 ppm of ammonia.
Day 4: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .48 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .24 ppm of ammonia.
Day 5: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .5 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .25 ppm of ammonia.

So from day 5 onwards, even with daily water changes your betta's tank will be stuck at .25 ppm!

Thats just an example but the math will be similar for your tank (assuming you only ever do PWCs) and could be causing big problems with your water chemistry.


For treatment I would try a different antibiotic (Maracyn 2 perhaps), up the water changes to 100% and keep an eye out for regrowth

Okay. . .see, that's what's confused me. I had thought with leaving a bit of ammonia in that they tank would eventually do the fish-in cycle. All my other bettas have done fine in uncycled tanks. I rehomed two of my bettas today because I realized that it's too difficult to tend to all the tanks I have properly. This will give me time to concentrate on the remaining (now I have four bettas - two female and two male).

 

[Assaye]

The reason I think it's fin rot is because the tips are black.
Tried tetracycline
5-gallon
uncycled
25-50% change every four days

He looks pretty bad now. He's swimming around but when at the top tipped ever so slightly at an angle.

Oh dear that does sound like fin rot. Not sure how often you do 100% cleanings but I think I see your problem.

Uncycled tanks do need to be cleaned 100% when you clean them. Why?

For example, say your betta produces .25ppm of ammonia per day. You change the water 50% daily...

Day 1: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .25 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .125 ppm ammonia.
Day 2: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .38 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .19 ppm of ammonia.
Day 3: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .44 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .22 ppm of ammonia.
Day 4: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .48 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .24 ppm of ammonia.
Day 5: Betta makes .25 ppm of ammonia for a total of .5 ppm. You do a 50% PWC. Now we have .25 ppm of ammonia.

So from day 5 onwards, even with daily water changes your betta's tank will be stuck at .25 ppm!

Thats just an example but the math will be similar for your tank (assuming you only ever do PWCs) and could be causing big problems with your water chemistry.


For treatment I would try a different antibiotic (Maracyn 2 perhaps), up the water changes to 100% and keep an eye out for regrowth

Okay. . .see, that's what's confused me. I had thought with leaving a bit of ammonia in that they tank would eventually do the fish-in cycle. All my other bettas have done fine in uncycled tanks. I rehomed two of my bettas today because I realized that it's too difficult to tend to all the tanks I have properly. This will give me time to concentrate on the remaining (now I have four bettas - two female and two male).

You've got a filter in there then?

I'm not sure where I saw the article (it was somewhere on here, maybe in the BRC, I'll look tomorrow) but it was a write up of a really careful experiment to show that you can keep ammonia at absolutely undetectable levels and still manage a timely fisn-in cycle. It's very risky to intentionally leave a bit of ammonia present to help the cycle along.

It might not be excess ammonia but I would definitely say do some larger water changes if you want to get the tank cycled. If I am trying to cycle a small tank I still end up doing 50% every day or so. Basically, a test kit if your best friend. Always do a WC if there is ammonia or nitrite present.

I don't think there is any need to euthanize with fin-damage. If he is active and eating, I think he's in a good position to carry on and potentially recover.

 

[kelly528]

Agreed. Any in your situation GG the issue may not necessarily even be ammonia... you could be in cycle limbo and maybe its nitrite that you aren't getting rid of with the current W/C schedule.

Time to get to know your test kit and I think rehoming the bettas will help too.

Best of luck with getting everything under control and don't worry I think he'll make a full recovery with a change in water quality and some new antibiotics

 

[ellena]

If you've had him 9 months, how come the tank is uncycled? Does it have a filter?

 

[GuppyGoddess]

Agreed. Any in your situation GG the issue may not necessarily even be ammonia... you could be in cycle limbo and maybe its nitrite that you aren't getting rid of with the current W/C schedule.

Time to get to know your test kit and I think rehoming the bettas will help too.

Best of luck with getting everything under control and don't worry I think he'll make a full recovery with a change in water quality and some new antibiotics

Yes, limbo is the right word. We're moving in a month and will be going from city water to well water. I'm not even sure what to do at this point! Trying to acclimate four tanks to well water. Sigh!

I found an excellent website on how to acclimate to well water and even spoke with a person who's done this, but with four tanks! Eh. I am going to divide my 10-gallon to reduce to three tanks. We'll see!

Oh, and I do have a test kit. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. That's how I know the tanks haven't cycled.

 

[kelly528]

Agreed. Any in your situation GG the issue may not necessarily even be ammonia... you could be in cycle limbo and maybe its nitrite that you aren't getting rid of with the current W/C schedule.

Time to get to know your test kit and I think rehoming the bettas will help too.

Best of luck with getting everything under control and don't worry I think he'll make a full recovery with a change in water quality and some new antibiotics

Yes, limbo is the right word. We're moving in a month and will be going from city water to well water. I'm not even sure what to do at this point! Trying to acclimate four tanks to well water. Sigh!

I found an excellent website on how to acclimate to well water and even spoke with a person who's done this, but with four tanks! Eh. I am going to divide my 10-gallon to reduce to three tanks. We'll see!

Oh, and I do have a test kit. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. That's how I know the tanks haven't cycled.

Good luck! If bettas had nerves in their tails I'm sure there would be no such thing as tail-biting... so just try to keep the infection from spreading to his body and he should pull through just fine!