When Is 'cycle' Done?

[starsatnight]

hi there - i am very new to tropical fish and tanks of any sort. i have always wanted fish and it seems that now is the time.

i have recently set up a 25 gallon tank (with a heater, an AquaClear 50 filter and plastic plants) and am wondering when it's really ready to add fish. i have found a dozen different answers depending on what book i'm reading, what site i've visited or what shop keeper i've asked. i've heard everything from 3 days to 4 weeks. following is a day-by-day dairy of what i've been doing.

Day 1 - filled tank with tap water & added 3 litres of water from a friends 'healthy' tropical tank - many air bubbles
Day 2 - began running the filter (had only filter medium, not the foam piece) and heater 24 hours a day
Day 3 - bought foam piece, rinsed with cold tap water and added to filter. Noticed cloudy water that has steadily been clearing
Day 4 - added water conditioner and 6 hours later tested ph (7.0 - 7.5) and ammonia (0.0). temperature reads 78 - 82. water still slightly cloudy
Day 5 - this evening the tiny air bubbles were all gone and the water is only slightly milky. once again ammonia was 0.0 and pH was 7.0-7.5

since the first two acid and ammonia levels checked out ok, i am now wondering if i could begin to add fish in the next two days. or do i still need to let my tank 'cycle' for another week or so. will there be more fluctuations before i put fish in?

i know i run the risk of getting more differing answers, but i am really anxious to add fish - but i don't want to stress the poor things if it's too soon.

any advice or input would be welcomed.

thank you

 

[dizzied]

It hasn't even begun.

Read about the fishless cycle here
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah not even started cycling

read the above about fishless cycling, or if you have a friend with a mature tank if you can get some of the sponge from their filter (keep it wet with tank water, get it into your tank within 12 hrs and don't clean it) and put it in yours which should kick start things.

if you don't understand the cycling process at all then read this topic, it tells you how it all works and what the different levels mean and then goes on to tell you what you have to do if you haven't cycled your tank before adding fish

 

[starsatnight]

yeah not even started cycling

read the above about fishless cycling, or if you have a friend with a mature tank if you can get some of the sponge from their filter (keep it wet with tank water, get it into your tank within 12 hrs and don't clean it) and put it in yours which should kick start things.

if you don't understand the cycling process at all then read this topic, it tells you how it all works and what the different levels mean and then goes on to tell you what you have to do if you haven't cycled your tank before adding fish

thank you both. initially i didn't understand the responses. i had thought i wanted to have a 0.0 - 1.2 ammonia reading. but after re-reading the two links with the "it hasn't even started cycling" comments - i'm beginning to understand that i want to have the ammonia levels go up and down a few times. got it - i think!

i had water from a healthy tank - i guess that's not enough to start with? i don't know if i want to buy ammonia - is it safe to have in a bottle in the house?

one thing i didn't see in either of the threads though, was information on knowing exactly when the fluctuations are over or not. is there no specific guideline? or is it just a matter of knowing when. and if that is the case, how would a beginner ever know this?

thanks again!

 

[Tessla]

You want the ammonia in your tank to encourage the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrites to colonize your filter. This will build up nitrites (less toxic than ammonia, but still toxic) that will encourage the bacteria that convert nitrites to nitrates to colonize your filter. A filter in a mature cycled tank will convert all ammonia (very toxic) to nitrites (less toxic) to nitrates (least toxic) so that your fish should only ever have to deal with the nitrates (and you deal with those by doing regular water changes.)

Rather than starting off a cycle from scratch and waiting for the bacteria to colonise your filter, you can also use mature filter media from a tank that has already cycled and add fish right away. Water from a healthy tank helps a bit, but will not give you enough bacteria right away (not to mention if you let it sit for a few days, the bacteria won't have an ammonia food source and will die off.) Aquariums are all about keeping your pet bacteria colony healthy.

 

[edgun88]

yeah not even started cycling

read the above about fishless cycling, or if you have a friend with a mature tank if you can get some of the sponge from their filter (keep it wet with tank water, get it into your tank within 12 hrs and don't clean it) and put it in yours which should kick start things.

if you don't understand the cycling process at all then read this topic, it tells you how it all works and what the different levels mean and then goes on to tell you what you have to do if you haven't cycled your tank before adding fish

thank you both. initially i didn't understand the responses. i had thought i wanted to have a 0.0 - 1.2 ammonia reading. but after re-reading the two links with the "it hasn't even started cycling" comments - i'm beginning to understand that i want to have the ammonia levels go up and down a few times. got it - i think!

i had water from a healthy tank - i guess that's not enough to start with? i don't know if i want to buy ammonia - is it safe to have in a bottle in the house?

one thing i didn't see in either of the threads though, was information on knowing exactly when the fluctuations are over or not. is there no specific guideline? or is it just a matter of knowing when. and if that is the case, how would a beginner ever know this?

thanks again!

Ammonia is perfectly safe to have in your house.

Better yet, you said that you got water from an established tank? Take some filter media from that tank and place it in your filter. There will be alot of bacteria in that filter media which will speed the process of cycling dramatically.

 

[starsatnight]

Better yet, you said that you got water from an established tank? Take some filter media from that tank and place it in your filter. There will be alot of bacteria in that filter media which will speed the process of cycling dramatically.

i did get water from an established tank. i'd love to get media from them, but they've gone of on holidays for the next few weeks.

i have another friend that has a non-heated tank and he's keeping two goldfish in it. he's had them for years (they were el-cheapo feeder fish, apparently) and they're quite large now. i could ask him for filter media, but as i'm keeping a heated tank - is it OK to get the media from a cold tank?

also - he has quite a robust crop of green slimy algae in there. it's all over the plastic plants, gravel and the decorations. is that a healthy tank to borrow media from?

sorry for all the newbie questions!

 

[Tessla]

Shouldn't be any trouble using filter media from a coldwater tank. Algae doesn't always say anything about the health of the tank, what size is it and how does he maintain it? I'd expect it in any goldfish tank no matter how well maintained, they're messy fish. If he's had it for years, the el-cheapo feeder goldfish ought to be at least a foot by now (had one in an 80 gallon tank once, they grow fast!) but in smaller tanks, they stay smaller and even unhealthy goldfish live for years... difficult to tell.

No need to apologize for newbie questions, better that you ask them before you get your fish, most people don't bother.

 

[starsatnight]

Shouldn't be any trouble using filter media from a coldwater tank. Algae doesn't always say anything about the health of the tank, what size is it and how does he maintain it? I'd expect it in any goldfish tank no matter how well maintained, they're messy fish. If he's had it for years, the el-cheapo feeder goldfish ought to be at least a foot by now (had one in an 80 gallon tank once, they grow fast!) but in smaller tanks, they stay smaller and even unhealthy goldfish live for years... difficult to tell.

No need to apologize for newbie questions, better that you ask them before you get your fish, most people don't bother.

thanks again tessla! the tank is a 25 gallon and he cleans it once a month or so. however he's told me he only changes the filter media yearly - he just rinses the media in the tank water each month. i'm not sure that i agree with this! but then again, what do i know....

one of his goldfish is probably 7" and quite fat. the other is smaller, at about 4" - the smaller one got quite sick a few years ago (white fuzzy and sort of mouldy) but got better on it's own. i'm guessing it's growth is stunted.

i think this is why i'm hesitant to use his filter media. then again - maybe i'm being too picky......

 

[Tessla]

I'd be worried about disease in that tank, way too small for the goldfish not to mention even in a larger tank they need more frequent water changes. It would probably be better to wait until you can get filter media from the other tank, if you've got a fish store near you that takes good care of their fish, you might try asking them for some filter media as well.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yes while getting media from a healthy mature tank can do your tank wonders, getting media from an unhealthy tanks is a very bad idea. personally i wouldn't do it.

the bacteria you want to develop is sessile, meaning it doesn't live free floating in the water, it attaches itself to things, filter media is designed as the ideal place for it to live so most of it lives there however some will live in the gravel, on plants and ornaments so getting anything from a healthy tank will help, but filter media will be the best.

there's a pinned topic at the top of this page which has a list of members willing to donate filter media to newbies, have a check if there's anyone in your area

one thing i didn't see in either of the threads though, was information on knowing exactly when the fluctuations are over or not. is there no specific guideline? or is it just a matter of knowing when. and if that is the case, how would a beginner ever know this?

don't think this question has been answered yet, you know by checking the water with a test kit. if you test daily and keep a log you'll see the ammonia reading rise and fall then the nitrite reading rise and fall, when both readings are 0 then you do a 90% water change and your good to add fish.

ammonia is perfectly safe to have in the house, obviously you keep it with the lid done up and out of reach of children and pets as you would with any cleaning products. But it's no more dangerous than having a bottle of bleach.

and Tessla's absolutely right, we'd much rather you came on here and asked newbie questions before getting fish than just went out and got them. If we didn't wanna answer we wouldn't be here

 

[Maxta]

Sorry to butt in, is filter media the little plastic balls with holes in them, and cyclinder plastic bits? If so, the filter used by the 190L tank, the media is far too big for my internal filter.

Would it be beneficial to take some filter media out and kinda wash/rinse them in my 35L tank? Then maybe the small filter media in my internal pump may take some bacteria or whatnot in?

 

[Tessla]

Those sound like filter media and out to have lots of bacteria living on them, I think I remember you saying it's a canister filter in the 190L tank? Usually the plastic or ceramic balls are placed on top of other kinds of media. There ought to be some other types of media, including a piece of filter floss or a sponge of some sort. You can cut off a piece of the filter floss or sponge to add to the smaller filter.

What kind of filter do you have in the small tank? That would give us a better idea of what sort of mature media you can fit in there.

 

[Maxta]

I have the Hagen Elite Stingray (Underwater Series) for upto 10 US gallons.

 

[starsatnight]

yes while getting media from a healthy mature tank can do your tank wonders, getting media from an unhealthy tanks is a very bad idea. personally i wouldn't do it.

one thing i didn't see in either of the threads though, was information on knowing exactly when the fluctuations are over or not. is there no specific guideline? or is it just a matter of knowing when. and if that is the case, how would a beginner ever know this?

don't think this question has been answered yet, you know by checking the water with a test kit. if you test daily and keep a log you'll see the ammonia reading rise and fall then the nitrite reading rise and fall, when both readings are 0 then you do a 90% water change and your good to add fish.

and Tessla's absolutely right, we'd much rather you came on here and asked newbie questions before getting fish than just went out and got them. If we didn't wanna answer we wouldn't be here

yes - i really don't think i agree with how my friend is keeping his tank - i guess that's why i'm here asking questions rather than asking him! but i didn't know if i was being a newly idealistic and overly sanctimonious fish tank person! thanks to everyone for giving me good info.

regarding nitrite.... my two lfs told me that i didnt' need to test for nitrite unless my pH started to get high. i only have a test kit for ammonia and pH. i saw a small ammonia spike initally, but have now gone back down to a consistant 0.0 reading. the pH is pretty consistantly 7.5 (which is lower than the pH of 8.0 that is common in my area, or so the lfs tells me).

anyway - i'll keep on going and soon i will be able to bring my babies home.

thanks again!