What Would You Do?

[mark4785]

The purpose of this thread is to establish what kind of plant care regime you would adopt if you owned an aquarium with a certain water capacity, fish stock, amount of plants and lighting specification. I'm well aware that plants need two different types of nutrients, one being macro-nutrients and the other micro-nutrients, but I don't know that much about how often and how much I should use in the particular environment that I keep my aquatic plants.

So if you were in-charge of maintaining an aquarium with plants (with the specifications described below) what fertilizers would you give to the plants, how often would you do this and why? Would you expect good growth and little algae from adopting that regime?

Here are all the details of my aquarium:

Capacity: Approximately 120 litres.
Fish: 2 German Blue Rams, 5 Black Neon Tetra and 1 Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish (I know there should be more than one; thats a separate issue that I will gradually address).
Fish Food used: Ocean Nutrition Spirulina Flakes and Bloodworm fed about 3 times a day, as much as will be eaten in 5 minutes.
Plants: Several strands of Elodea Densa, 2 Anubias Barteri var nana and 1 Cryptocoryne x willisii.
Lighting: 2 x 24W T5 Philips Lamps; they are on from 5:00pm through to 11:30pm. From 11:20pm a very dim blue LED turns on for approximately 2 hours.
Fertilizers: I am relying on the EasyLife range at the moment.

Below is a picture of all the plants etc:

A picture showing the Diatoms losing their grip on the Anubias:

Any advice?

 

[ian]

plants need 3 types of nutrients the third being c02. In a tank with so little plants i would just dose with Profito every 3rd day. I would also spot dose easycarbo on the anubias, i would also dose the instructed amount of easycarbo. I would get rid of the airstone. Diatoms as you know feed on small ammonia spikes, can you up the flow on the filter? Personally i would also add 4 ottos.

 

[lljdma06]

While I've been seriously planting tanks for about 5 years, I've always had plants in my aquariums. I've been keeping fish for about 20 years. Used the standard stock lighting and grew very much what you have above, crypts, anubias, egeria densa, maybe a sword thrown in or an aponogeton. I basically just dosed an all-purpose fert back then, like a leafzone, or Flourish, or whatnot. I didn't dose the macros in excess. Now, I had stock lighting, which means I had significantly less wattage than what you have, of T8 lighting no less. Growth was slow, but things flowered, leaves sprouted, and fish were happy.

The diatoms will go away if you change your water and feed your fish less. That's an ammonia spike there. I feed my fish 1x a day at most, sometimes, I'll go a couple days.

Do you want to keep your current lighting?

 

[ian]

also, i'd plant more plants, Mark

 

[mark4785]

While I've been seriously planting tanks for about 5 years, I've always had plants in my aquariums. I've been keeping fish for about 20 years. Used the standard stock lighting and grew very much what you have above, crypts, anubias, egeria densa, maybe a sword thrown in or an aponogeton. I basically just dosed an all-purpose fert back then, like a leafzone, or Flourish, or whatnot. I didn't dose the macros in excess. Now, I had stock lighting, which means I had significantly less wattage than what you have, of T8 lighting no less. Growth was slow, but things flowered, leaves sprouted, and fish were happy.

The diatoms will go away if you change your water and feed your fish less. That's an ammonia spike there. I feed my fish 1x a day at most, sometimes, I'll go a couple days.

Do you want to keep your current lighting?

Why will a water change get rid of the diatoms? Water changes are usually conducted weekly but my nitrate levels never get that high and my KH and GH doesn't change within a week so everything remains stable within a 7 day time frame.

I intend to keep the current lighting yes. Is there a downside to keeping it? If so, what could I do to rectify the issue with the hardware that I have (default hardware supplied with a Ferplast Cayman 80 Professional aquarium).

also, i'd plant more plants, Mark

Where exactly?!?

plants need 3 types of nutrients the third being c02. In a tank with so little plants i would just dose with Profito every 3rd day. I would also spot dose easycarbo on the anubias, i would also dose the instructed amount of easycarbo. I would get rid of the airstone. Diatoms as you know feed on small ammonia spikes, can you up the flow on the filter? Personally i would also add 4 ottos.

I can't up the flow. The flow rate is dictated by how clean the filters are. I took the biological filters out about 2 weeks ago and there was no debris, just more of a discolouration in the water (dark brown) so I'd say the current flow rate cannot be made quicker than it is.

 

[ian]

where??

I can see loads of substrate.

 

[PDSimon]

That anubia is in a right state

You have LOOOADS of room for plants!! You could definately fit some swords in the back there, some more crypts in the front, move those taller plants in the middle to the back and have some sort of echinodorus or something.

If you got more plants it would certainly help fight algae as 3/4 of your plants are slow growing. I would also split the crypt up into smaller plants and spread it around along the bogwood rather than one big plant.

you could have eleocharis parvula at the front too...

You've got more lighting than my tank and I have loads of plants. I think I have 11 plants in my tank... but if you don't visually want more plants I get it, but when you have so few plants most people can get away without dosing anything. Especially for elodea and anubias.

I'd put some java ferns on both those pieces of wood too.

If you can see the background or the substrate, then there is plenty of space for plants btw I would try spot dosing like Ianho said but also try scraping it off? looks quite crusty... apparently diatoms are caused by ammonia and silica so they're common in new aquariums. I've got them on my crypts too although you can't really see it in the pic.

 

[mark4785]

That anubia is in a right state

You have LOOOADS of room for plants!! You could definately fit some swords in the back there, some more crypts in the front, move those taller plants in the middle to the back and have some sort of echinodorus or something.

If you got more plants it would certainly help fight algae as 3/4 of your plants are slow growing. I would also split the crypt up into smaller plants and spread it around along the bogwood rather than one big plant.

you could have eleocharis parvula at the front too...

You've got more lighting than my tank and I have loads of plants. I think I have 11 plants in my tank... but if you don't visually want more plants I get it, but when you have so few plants most people can get away without dosing anything. Especially for elodea and anubias.

I'd put some java ferns on both those pieces of wood too.

If you can see the background or the substrate, then there is plenty of space for plants btw I would try spot dosing like Ianho said but also try scraping it off? looks quite crusty... apparently diatoms are caused by ammonia and silica so they're common in new aquariums. I've got them on my crypts too although you can't really see it in the pic.

The Anubias is healthy but it's obviously got diatoms growing all over it making it look like the actual leaves are rotting. They appear to be dropping off now and the Rams are pecking at it.

By swords what do you mean? I've found something named a Dwarf Chain Sword but that would look too small for the back of the tank.

I didn't realise the crypt could be split up, if I had known this I would have separated prior to introduction to the tank.

I do like the idea of Java fern growing on the 'fake' mangrove to the right. It obviously doesn't look that fake as you thought it was wood . How would I get it to actually grow on the ornament?

The anubias to the left (with diatoms) is growing on the bog wood. It was initially tied there with cotton string but it appears the roots are now holding onto the bog wood and keeping it in place. Some of the roots are hanging above the substrate, is this good or bad? I mainly use liquid plant fertilizers so I was thinking the roots would take what nutrients they need out of the water?

I do like the look of the eleocharis parvula and it seems quite easy to please but I'm not sure they stock it in any of my LFS'.

I'm not too sure what spot dosing is. I tried a while ago to remove the diatoms physically but I would end up ripping the leaves.

 

[PDSimon]

amazon swords aka echinodorus bleheri - easy to grow plants and should thrive in your tank. Its the big plant on the far right at the back in my picture.

The anubias looks healthy, just the algae has took over it The spot dosing i'm not sure as i've never done it but i think you get a pipette/syringe and get it on the leaf. The aquascaping place down the road from me actually dip the plant in liquid carbon lol.

the java ferns (microsorum pteropus - they're the ones attached to the bogwood in my tank, although mine are a narrow variety) are similar to the anubias in that they will attach to the wood (or fake wood). You can use string or the appropriate glue. The roots of anubias are fine in the substrate as long as the rhizome isn't. It'll take most of its nutrients through the water rather than the substrate.

My crypt split up anyway, x willisii I think it was. I just sort of...pulled it apart, planted it and its grown Hygrophila difformis is the tall plant at the back that is lime green in colour. I would recommend that as a fast growing plant... goes mental.

You could always buy online if your LFS doesn't have the plants that would be suitable.

 

[lljdma06]

While I've been seriously planting tanks for about 5 years, I've always had plants in my aquariums. I've been keeping fish for about 20 years. Used the standard stock lighting and grew very much what you have above, crypts, anubias, egeria densa, maybe a sword thrown in or an aponogeton. I basically just dosed an all-purpose fert back then, like a leafzone, or Flourish, or whatnot. I didn't dose the macros in excess. Now, I had stock lighting, which means I had significantly less wattage than what you have, of T8 lighting no less. Growth was slow, but things flowered, leaves sprouted, and fish were happy.

The diatoms will go away if you change your water and feed your fish less. That's an ammonia spike there. I feed my fish 1x a day at most, sometimes, I'll go a couple days.

Do you want to keep your current lighting?

Why will a water change get rid of the diatoms? Water changes are usually conducted weekly but my nitrate levels never get that high and my KH and GH doesn't change within a week so everything remains stable within a 7 day time frame.

I intend to keep the current lighting yes. Is there a downside to keeping it? If so, what could I do to rectify the issue with the hardware that I have (default hardware supplied with a Ferplast Cayman 80 Professional aquarium).

Because the water change will dilute the ammonia that's why. Don't worry so much about levels of g whatever and k whatnot. Test kits aren't all that important, I've haven't used one in years.

If you're going to keep your ligting, add more plants and consider dosing macros. TPN+ has probably been mentioned in passing (I haven't read through the whole thread)

Also read this please

PARC

Pay close attention to Aaronnorth's "Back to Basics"

llj

 

[mark4785]

amazon swords aka echinodorus bleheri - easy to grow plants and should thrive in your tank. Its the big plant on the far right at the back in my picture.

The anubias looks healthy, just the algae has took over it The spot dosing i'm not sure as i've never done it but i think you get a pipette/syringe and get it on the leaf. The aquascaping place down the road from me actually dip the plant in liquid carbon lol.

the java ferns (microsorum pteropus - they're the ones attached to the bogwood in my tank, although mine are a narrow variety) are similar to the anubias in that they will attach to the wood (or fake wood). You can use string or the appropriate glue. The roots of anubias are fine in the substrate as long as the rhizome isn't. It'll take most of its nutrients through the water rather than the substrate.

My crypt split up anyway, x willisii I think it was. I just sort of...pulled it apart, planted it and its grown Hygrophila difformis is the tall plant at the back that is lime green in colour. I would recommend that as a fast growing plant... goes mental.

You could always buy online if your LFS doesn't have the plants that would be suitable.

Thank you for all that information.

I think the Amazon sword plant is a bit too large and I'm a bit hesitant to buy anymore fast-growers as they are the first to show signs of degrading if there is an issue in the water. My old Elodea Densa leaves went slightly transparent towards the bottom and all the growth took place at the top-half of the plant with the stem appearing really thin.

Meanwhile, all of the slow-growers (mainly the Cryptocoryne; fresh leaves are growing in the middle without diatoms; see picture below) are growing normally, and, well, quickly!

Cryptocoryne:

The java ferns you mentioned look quite nice and I think I may have a go at growing them on the mangrove.

I do like the Hygrophila difformis that you have because if my Elodea Densa eventually turns brittle and thin again, I think I may replace them with a similar tall plant. I'd prefer a slow-growing tall plant though for the reason stated above.

I'd prefer to physically shop for plants as some of the plants I received from eBay (for use in the pond) where an absolute disaster. They arrived dead basically; yellow leaves, slimey, prutrid smell etc

Mark.

 

[mark4785]

I'm going to attempt to split up the Cryptocoryne soon. Hopefully I won't just end up ripping it to pieces. It would be such a shame if it died after I mess about with it as it's been growing fast.

Was going to attempt to do it earlier but my insulin pump stalled while I was cycling this morning which has left me feeling ill all day, grr

Any tips for what must be done once it's relocated? Should I put fertilizer tabs next to the roots? Presumably, moving it after its roots have taken hold will impact it negatively.

Mark.

 

[PDSimon]

Yeah stick a few tabs in, it'll take a short time to re-establish itself but it'll manage. I don't think I've had to trim my crypt once!

 

[mark4785]

Yeah stick a few tabs in, it'll take a short time to re-establish itself but it'll manage. I don't think I've had to trim my crypt once!

I took the Cryptocoryne out and had a go at separating the stems. It was firmly stuck together and I ended up ripping one leaf and stem off of it. I've just put it back in without separating anything as I'm frightened of damaging it. I can still put some of the plants in that you recommended regardless of this though.

The Rams are always interested when I'm rummaging through things in the tank; not frightened at all!

 

[SuperColey1]

amazon swords aka echinodorus bleheri

Amazon Swords are actually Echinodorus Amazonicus but more often than not Bleheri are the ones sold as Amazon swords. Its one of those common names that seems to be attached nowadays to most of the larger Echinodrus'

I think the Amazon sword plant is a bit too large

So do I they tend to get going very quickly and can swamp a tank of your (and my) size.

I'm a bit hesitant to buy anymore fast-growers as they are the first to show signs of degrading if there is an issue in the water.

Thats because with your lights they grow real fast, however they are the ones you ned to remove any ammonia etc. They consume the nutrient fastest.

My old Elodea Densa leaves went slightly transparent towards the bottom and all the growth took place at the top-half of the plant with the stem appearing really thin.

I would guess this is the same reason as above. Shooting up toward the light.

I'm going to attempt to split up the Cryptocoryne soon. Hopefully I won't just end up ripping it to pieces. It would be such a shame if it died after I mess about with it as it's been growing fast.

It will appear as if it is dying after you split it up as it will go through a 'melt' stage. Crypts can be very temperamentla. Don't like being interfered with at all but no harm is caused. they just melt and then come back even stronger. You will find that the'large' plant you have now is actually 10-20 smaller plants tightly packed together.

Any tips for what must be done once it's relocated? Should I put fertilizer tabs next to the roots? Presumably, moving it after its roots have taken hold will impact it negatively.

I wouldnd't put any ferts in at all unless you are wanting to add loads more plants. The light is the killer in your tank. It doesn't leave much option really. Its either fully planted and ferts (and possibly CO2 too) or nothing at all because it is the light that is driving the plants to grow. With just a few plants and ammonia in the tank from overfeeding you are seeing the result in diatoms. That will quickly become secondary if algae does start to grow and you will most likely see staghorn (black on the tips of the leaves nearest light) and the gren 'hairy stuff. BBA (black fluffy stuff) is likely to become a ficture on hardscape and equipment too.

I took the Cryptocoryne out and had a go at separating the stems. It was firmly stuck together and I ended up ripping one leaf and stem off of it. I've just put it back in without separating anything as I'm frightened of damaging it. I can still put some of the plants in that you recommended regardless of this though.[/wuote]

Don't be frightened of killing plants/ Think of your garden. You weed and take out all but a tiny sliver of root and it comes back. Plants are strong things. No bones and all that Take the crypt out and run your finger down the middle. If you are worried then tease it apart. Even if all the leaves and stems comeoff and you are left with just the root don't worry. They will grow pretty quickly.

[quoteThe Rams are always interested when I'm rummaging through things in the tank; not frightened at all!

I used to love my rams. First fish to come to the front and give a stare when you approach the tank. Lovely fish.

Answering you initial question I guess you know my opinion. Its plant up heavily and add ferts or leave it as is/put a couple of plants in and don't dose.

The lights are a problem though. With lower light I can not bother dosing my tank which you've seen is always very heavily planted. Much more so than most peoples/

Good luck and don't be scared of internet shops. There are some bad 'uns out there. Just a question of finding good ones. Works out much cheaper than the LFS/P@H etc.

AC