What to do with half brown sword leaves?

[utahfish]

Actually, with swords this is not the case. The older leaves if they are still connected at the crown (not brown but solid) will transfer nutrients down through the crown and up into new leaf growth. This is the plants way to provide energy to new growth at the expense of old growth. I generally leave the outer (older) leaves if they begin to obviously die until the stem base is no longer connecting the leaf. A slight tug on the leaf will usually easily break it off at the crown if it is no longer connected.

True and if one cuts off the brown leaves the new ones will still get nutrients.
I think the point i was attempting to make is cutting the old dying leaves isnt going to hurt the plant. The brown leaves once brown arent going to get green all the sudden, theyre already dead dying no amount of fert is going to make them green again as far as i know?

 

[Byron]

True and if one cuts off the brown leaves the new ones will still get nutrients.
I think the point i was attempting to make is cutting the old dying leaves isnt going to hurt the plant. The brown leaves once brown arent going to get green all the sudden, theyre already dead dying no amount of fert is going to make them green again as far as i know?

True, respecting the dying leaves. Leaves on Echinodorus never recover; once the death has set in the leaf, it proceeds. Of course, one has to identify leaf death and brown spots (excess iron, often due to insufficient calcium, for one example) but the leaf itself is still alive. It is the connection at the base of the stem that is the indicator; if still solid and not brown, the leaf is alive and removing it will likely be detrimental, but if brown through the leaf is dead.

The transfer of nutrients from older leaves to new growth is very significant with this genus. They are heavy feeders. In my situation for example, I have zero GH/KH with a very acidic pH. Over a period of some 8-10 years with Echinodorus plants in 5 or 6 of my tanks I worked out ways to benefit the plants without sacrificing my fish with too much calcium for instance. And the nutrient transfer from old leaves to new growth is substantial with these plants. I had been using Equilibrium for some five years in two tanks, but I was able to completely discontinue this by using substrate tabs replaced every 2 months instead of 3, and a once weekly dose of liquid FC. The calcium deficiency basically cleared up, but not at the cost of increasing the GH from zero to 5 or 6 dGH.

 

[utahfish]

True, respecting the dying leaves. Leaves on Echinodorus never recover; once the death has set in the leaf, it proceeds. Of course, one has to identify leaf death and brown spots (excess iron, often due to insufficient calcium, for one example) but the leaf itself is still alive. It is the connection at the base of the stem that is the indicator; if still solid and not brown, the leaf is alive and removing it will likely be detrimental, but if brown through the leaf is dead.

The transfer of nutrients from older leaves to new growth is very significant with this genus. They are heavy feeders. In my situation for example, I have zero GH/KH with a very acidic pH. Over a period of some 8-10 years with Echinodorus plants in 5 or 6 of my tanks I worked out ways to benefit the plants without sacrificing my fish with too much calcium for instance. And the nutrient transfer from old leaves to new growth is substantial with these plants. I had been using Equilibrium for some five years in two tanks, but I was able to completely discontinue this by using substrate tabs replaced every 2 months instead of 3, and a once weekly dose of liquid FC. The calcium deficiency basically cleared up, but not at the cost of increasing the GH from zero to 5 or 6 dGH.

i have two rosette swords that could be better, i usually trim the dying leaves off at first sight of yellowing or brown but given this information im going to leave them on and see if it improves growth.
Thanks for this tip!

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I would leave the leaves for now. Add a substrate tab close to the crown of each plant and let them establish. Move them now rather than later so they can settle in. Once you see new leaves emerging from the centre of the crown, you can then decide whether or not to cut off the outer older leaves that may be browning. As I mentioned in my post above, Echinodorus will transfer nutrients from older dying leaves to new growth, provided the stem at the crown is still intact; once that browns and the leaf easily comes away with a very slight tug, no point in not removing it.

I would love to move them now, was planning to have those new tanks set up this week which is why I bought more plants. But have seen signs of worms in the fish since then, so I've put the new tanks on hold until current tanks have completed their repeat doses of the medications. I really don't want to risk spreading worms or eggs to the new set ups on plants, then battling the worms again a few months later. Bit gutted since I'm excited to create the new tanks, and it's all here waiting, but better to be safe than sorry.

Since I know they're heavy root feeders, and this was sitting in a bare bottom tank at the LFS without much in the way of roots, I didn't want to leave it for weeks in my quarantine tank with only liquid ferts, so I put it into a tank that's being treated right now, and stuck a couple of root tabs among them. Hoping that'll get them by until I can move them over. I don't mind leaving the browning leaves, and it's good to know that they're being useful to the plant, so will leave them be at least for now.

also want to add the leaves look to be the emersed growth of sword leaves, so these will change overtime. New leaves will grow long and narrow, these ones will eventually be gone

Dang, I hadn't even considered that it might be emersed growth, thanks! My current sword has very long narrow leaves, and was hoping this was just a different variety. Not complaining though, it might still be a different one, I just kinda want to grow some emersed now, so I can keep giving the otos little hammock plants!

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

@NCaquatics I know it's funny, and I'm happy that it made you laugh, but I'm also kinda serious, lol. But I feel like i'm trying to learn too much at once at the same time. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around GH, KH, pH, and need to get it right for the softwater oto tank. I wanna prepare collected wood and stones for aquascaping, which is also new to me; I want to learn how to culture some live foods for the little guys, along with a bunch of other new things I want to learn -and now I'm thinking of learning how to propagate emersed plants... My enthusiasm might be a mite bit above my skill level or brain capacity...

 

[Byron]

Dang, I hadn't even considered that it might be emersed growth, thanks! My current sword has very long narrow leaves, and was hoping this was just a different variety. Not complaining though, it might still be a different one, I just kinda want to grow some emersed now, so I can keep giving the otos little hammock plants!

Wait and see how the new leaves that arise from the centre of the crown (which will be submersed leaf form) develop. There are different varieties of swords, even within the same distinct species, and in an aquarium the conditions (light, nutrients) can alter the leaf forms as well. I am fairly certain that the plants in the photos here are not the "common" Amazon sword (Echinodorus grisebachii, var. bleherae) as while the emersed form of this species does have more oval rather than longer blade leaves, they are not what shows in the photos. But the nomenclature of this genus is truly confused, something I have written on at length elsewhere and won't bore everyone with again here.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Wait and see how the new leaves that arise from the centre of the crown (which will be submersed leaf form) develop. There are different varieties of swords, even within the same distinct species, and in an aquarium the conditions (light, nutrients) can alter the leaf forms as well. I am fairly certain that the plants in the photos here are not the "common" Amazon sword (Echinodorus grisebachii, var. bleherae) as while the emersed form of this species does have more oval rather than longer blade leaves, they are not what shows in the photos. But the nomenclature of this genus is truly confused, something I have written on at length elsewhere and won't bore everyone with again here.

Not boring at all! Thank you for the thought and detail you put into your responses.
I'm still new to tanks, and planted tanks, but I'm keen to learn, so finding out these things from you and NCaquatics is invaluable to me. I think it might be a different sub-species from my current sword too, but I'll be keeping a keen eye out for new growth. They've been in there for a week now, and they had almost no roots and some browning and a couple of slimy rotted leaves when I picked them up, but they don't seem to be rotting now, so I think they'll make it now they have root tabs and are planted and not sitting on a bare bottom store tank. There was still plenty of healthy stems and leaves when I got them, despite the odd browning.