What Happens If You Dont Do A Fishless Cycle?

[Ladic]

like if you just put together your acquarium, put water and fish on it right away?

 

[rdd1952]

Fish create waste (fish poo) which is ammonia and is toxic to fish. In a cycled tank, nitrifying bacteria process ammonia into nitrite (also toxic)and then nitrite into nitrate. You remove nitrate by doing partial water changes on a regular basis, usually weekly. In an uncycled tank, there aren't any bacteria present to process the ammonia. Cycling is basically the process of building a bacteria colony to handle the fish waste as well as excess food that doesn't get eaten, decays and turns into ammonia. In a cycled tank, the ammonia and nitrite levels should always be zero.

In an uncycled tank, very shortly after you add fish, the ammonia level will begin to rise from the fish waste. To keep the level low, you will have to do daily partial water changes. Once bacteria begin to form to process the ammonia, nitrite will be present. Once again, partial water changes are the only way to keep the levels from getting too high. If you don't do the water changes and let the levels rise, you will begin to lose fish or see diseases such as white spot (caused by the stress of bad water conditions) set in.

In short, if you add fish to the tank without cycling, you will most likely need to do daily water changes (15 to 25 percent, depending on how high the ammonia and nitrite levels are) until there is enough bacteria present to process the ammonia. Depending on the species of fish you get and the pH of your water, the effect the ammonia and nitrite levels have will vary. The higher the pH of the water, the more toxic ammonia becomes.

Some fish, such as danios, are very hardy and make it through the cycling process fairly well as long as you keep the ammonia and nitrite relatively low. Others such as neon tetras are delicate and rarely make it through the cycling process unless you are able to keep the toxins very near zero all the time. Unfortunately, doing that severely slows the cycling process so it means you are doing the daily water changes that much longer.

And after you finally have done the water changes for a few weeks to keep the ammonia and nitrite down and gotten to the point where neither is present, you can add a few more fish.....and start the whole process over again as the bacteria will have to start building again to handle the larger load of fish.

 

[celaeno]

if you don't do a fishless cycle and just add fish right away, there won't be a bacterial colony in the filter to process the ammonia that fish produce in the form of solid and liquid waste. as ammonia builds up in the tank, the fish either die very quickly or survive with reduced lifespans.

after a fishless cycle, there's a bacterial colony that processes the ammonia as it's produced into nitrite, and a second kind of bacteria that processes the nitrite into nitrates, which is relatively harmless. in a properly cycled tank, ammonia and nitrite thus read zero and fish are healthier and more active.

 

[The-Wolf]

not more that I can say except
most of the ammonia is a by product of the fish
extracting O2 from the water through thier gills
I think the ratios is 80% gills/20% fecal/urinal matter

so even feeding the fish small amounts will have litle or no effect on the amount of ammonia they creat

 

[andywg]

Although it is perhaps worth noting that many fishkeepers have never cycled a tank without fish (myself included) and have never experienced any problems.

How bad the ammonia reading from your test is depends on the pH of your water. The higher the pH the worse it is for the fish.

If you stock lightly and keep an eye on your water parameters then cycling with fish is not the worst thing in the world (despite what some others on this board may tell you).

 

[Meds081603]

I'm going to have to agree w/ andy on this one. I have never cycled without fish and only lost a small handful of fish in the process. I do believe they were fish that would of died anyway too. IMO buy a couple cherry barbs, minnows, or feeder goldfish to cycle. I always do frequent small water changes and add some media from an established tank. In two weeks tops I have always been ready to add the "real" fish. You can then feed the cycle fish to larger cichlids or give them to a friend/lfs.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i've never actually cycled a tank without fish but i would if i had to now (although you really only ever have to cycle one tank then you can clone it)

when i cycled my first tank (without the first clue about what i was doing) i lost loads of fish and everytime i added new ones some would die off too.

you have to remember that cycling with just a few fish doesn't allow a full stocking like fishless does, it on;y builds up enough bacteria to support a few fish. so while it might be 'done' in 2 weeks, when you add more fish it's likely to start cycling again.

if it's done correcty there's nothing wrong with cycling with fish, however it's so rarely done right that i find it's best to advise people to go fishless

 

[rdd1952]

IMO buy a couple cherry barbs, minnows, or feeder goldfish to cycle. I always do frequent small water changes and add some media from an established tank. In two weeks tops I have always been ready to add the "real" fish. You can then feed the cycle fish to larger cichlids or give them to a friend/lfs.

Adding media from an established tank is the key here. If newbies had an established tank there wouldn't be a problem but they don't. They are starting from scratch. If you did a fishless cycle with seed media from an established tank, you could be completely cycled in less that a week without having to do any water changes at all and could all all your "real" fish at once. Cloning a tank and then using 2 or 3 fish only cycles the tank for those few fish and not for a full stocking. Every time you add more new fish, the bacteria will have to catch up again.

As for the cycle fish, most newbies also don't know of anyone they can give them to and only true fish stores will take them back and restock them. Walmart and the like will sometimes take them back but they will destroy them rather than put them back in their tanks.