What Happened To My Tank!?

[aquatic-Bizkut]

so i have owned this 25 gallon planted tank for a year or two now, at first it was just a small community fish tank, then a neon tank, then a puffer tank, and for the last year it has hosted a few tropical community fellows along with several plants. i have had some issues with algea, most were resolved with some great tips on here and elsewhere. so any way...

MY TANK SETUP:

this past 6 months i have added several plants, including a bunch of ordinary easy to take care of's : java fern, amazon swords.. some a little bit advanced.... i can't exactly remember some of the plants. i also have two - four pieces of driftwood, all plants and everything inside was purchased at a high quality aquatic store, except for the riccia i had bought off ebay, but that is no longer with me.

and i have a coralife 65 watt running on top. along with a regular filter( i have a 30 gallon top fin filter i got from petsmart years ago. pretty old) i have pure laterite substrate under my gravel, along with some fert. tablets. i have a regular top fin heater, works fine. i have these liquids that i have been putting in every once in a while:

i also have the hagen 20 gallon simple classy DIY setup for co2 that i got from petsmart (picture included)

, this is the recipe i put in it:

-sugar to the bottom inside line
-water to the top inside line, just luke warm
-1/8-1/4 teaspoon yeast (active dry yeast)
-1/4-1 teaspoon baking soda (optional)

i used that for the first months and it seemed to work, with little problems, i soon took it out becuase i noticed it didnt do anything. i changed it maybe once a month or so.


QUESTIONS.... (let the mystery begin....)

so for the first 3 months i had this running i was fine, i had plants doing just great, i had my coralife light setup along with another 15 watt light setup and my co2 simple setup. life was great for my little planted tank. it looked good (here is what it looked like)

, then about a month later i ordered some riccia off of ebay, it came in a little zip lock bag, i added it, all it did was floated at the top, never stay rooted no matter what i tried. soon my tank exploded in green water algea, so thick i couldnt see anything, also i noticed little white worm things all over my tank, my clown loach soon took care of them. soon enough it just kept getting worse, i finally bought some tetra algea control, and within a few days it went away, crystal clear once again, but my plants were rotting. turning brown and dieying, so i cleaned it up and pruned and everything was great again ( i got rid of the riccia) but soon after it did it again, another algea bloom. green water the same thing. so i did the same thing.... added some algea control, and i have done this twice, it seems to keep turning crappy in my tank, my plants die, and i get green blooms in the water. (as this picture shows)

so question, is it my co2 mixture? is it my co2? is it my lighting? i only have one clown loach, whom lives purely off of my plants and algea, i dont feed him flakes, could it be him? my filter? the liquids i'm dispensing in my tank? (just a sidenote, i have been doing water changes every week, or every other week, it takes about 4-8 days for the algea to come back) what do you peeps think could be the problem, lets see your expertness come out and solve my problem i'm really close to just getting rid of everything and going with some simple fake silk plants, but that would be a waste of my money becuase i bought a lot of equipment!


thanks for your help, and all comments and questions welcome.

 

[Underwurlde]

Do you know what?

Your setup & experiences almost exactly match mine. I'm total newbie, started in June with a 60L Rekord 60 community tank with some plants. I have done so much research over the last 6 months my head hurts, so hopefully I can condense it & pass on my thoughts.


OK, you have green water. Put a UV sterilizer in line with your filter and bosh, no more algae. This is not my experience, just saw a thread somewhere on this with piccies and the before & after was staggering! Oh, here's the thread:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=169325

Now, 95% of algae problems are down to CO2 issues - issues compounded by having high lighting, i.e. >1Watt per US Gallon. I use a nutrafin kit & find they are excellent. DIY a mix yourself. Igore the bicarb, add 1/2 tsp of yeast to sugar to indicated level, add 30°C water to other indicated level, shake and plug in. Change the mix every week. They come with a bubble ladder which is so-so. Get that CO2 into the water using a DIY venturi reactor if you can, see here (I have literally just made one myself - on new year's eve, sad git that I am)..
http/www.barrreport.com/articles/41-diy-...-co2-users.html
http/www.barrreport.com/articles/72-venturi-design.html

Info about CO2 & its use:
http/www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57706

You have 2.6 Watts per Gallon (I assume you are stating 25 US Gallons & NOT UK Gallons). This is fine, but if no CO2 then you'll get algae problems. Also you need heavy planting and correct dosing (*See later). Aim for about 20 to 30ppm of CO2. To measure CO2 see here:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=169942
There are pH KH tables as well, so root these out.

If you use an airstone, remove it. Surface agitiatiion will reduce CO2 (As will a badly placed power head). The surface should be 'gently agitated'.

*Plants need 17 essential elements so that they can grow properly:
Plants Require the following 17 elements:
90% of a plant’s bulk is: Oxygen[O] & Hydrogen [H] (Water, H2O) and Carbon [C]
Primary Macro-nutrients : Nitrogen [N], Phosphate [P], Potassium [K]
Secondary Macro-Nutrients: Calcium [Ca], Magnesium [Mg], Sulphur
Trace Elements: Boron , Chlorine [Cl], Nickel [Ni], Copper [Cu], Iron [Fe]
Manganese [Mn], Molybdenum [Mo], Zinc [Zn]

With CO2, you are giving the plants O, H & C
Dosing with SeaChem Flourish will give everything else apart from N,P & K (Well, apart from Nickel, but never mind that!).
Dose NPK either manually or using other SeaChem (or whatever) products.

Dosing plants what they need is the basis of a technique called 'Estiamtive Index' or EI.
http/www.barrreport.com/estimative-index...-test-kits.html
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=169165
The idea is that IF you have a lot of plants, with good lighting (>2W/Gal), CO2 and give them the essential elements they need, the plants will grow like hell and HENCE outstrip any algae - crystal clear beautiful plants!

(BTW, immediately ditch the IRON - this will NOT help with your algae problems at all!)

so question, is it my co2 mixture?

Yes, and the fact that you were only changing it monthly & not weekly

is it my co2?

100% yes because you had stopped using it / were not using it as well as you could.

is it my lighting?

Yes, but ONLY because of no CO2. Do as I suggest with CO2, you can leave it alone.

Also, you need at least 50% coverage with plants (that are now going to grow well, nudge-nudge) to out compete any algae.

ionly have one clown loach, whom lives purely off of my plants and algea, i dont feed him flakes, could it be him?

No. High stocking & overfeeding DOES cause algae. None of that relates to your setup

my filter?

Nope

the liquids i'm dispensing in my tank?

Ditch the IRON.
Dose NPK & SeaChem Flourish.
Use EI if you wish!

i'm really close to just getting rid of everything and going with some simple fake silk plants, but that would be a waste of my money becuase i bought a lot of equipment!

SO WAS I!!!!! That friggin close!
Then I discovered EI!!!!!

Hope I havn't bored you / put you off / anything else...

Andy

PS
Sterilize any new plants BEFORE you put them in your tank:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686

 

[nicklfire]

Well yea looks like you got the green water. Sucks alot.. and yes a quick solution would be uv sterilizer... but that's a fix for the water.. you gotta figure out exactly what's causing it...

I can see you got alot of trace elements for fertz... but you dont have all the stuff you need to properly dose your aquarium. Have you done a test of the water.. waht are your tests at.... That will tell you exactly where your giong wrong.. i can see you'v invested alot of time and money into your project.. i think just lack of experience has stopped you and that's where reading and reading and when your tired of reading you read some more will help you.

Lets start off by testing your water... let see some tests results...

 

[frozenbarb]

srry if im hackjackin but i saw one of the fertilziers Nutrafin plantgrowth the one far right is that one any good?? i cant see much of a differnce yet and wat happens if you dont change it weekly?

 

[three-fingers]

Not the issue but even more important IMO, clown loaches are NOT herbivores. In the wild they are carnivores, plant and vegetable matter should only supplement a clown loaches diet in captivity. Feed your clown loach some catfish pellets or something similar every couple of days. They are also shoaling fish that aren't suitable for a 25 gallon tank in the long run .

 

[SuperColey1]

I second what Andy has said.

The algae is definately due to high light, with too small amount of plants and lack of CO2.

Put more plants in, reconnect the CO2 with 1/2 teaspoon yeast and your problems should be solved.

I have an internal fish-r-fun 9V sterilizer and it has made my water absolutely crystal clear almost as if the tank was empty(I never had an algae problem but before my water was fairly clear) They're also suppost to kill off the parasites that hang around in tanks causing disease. Was only £25 inc postage off ebay

I've never used EI etc.

My ladder works perfect, took 2 days for the bubbles to get the hang of moving up the ladder, probably have to 'clean' their path first, but now it works perfectly.

So in short. put the CO2 back into action. put in more plants and get a UV sterilizer if you want to.

 

[Underwurlde]

Thanks SuperColey1...

@frozenbarb

srry if im hackjackin but i saw one of the fertilziers Nutrafin plantgrowth the one far right is that one any good??

Its not bad, but for dosing trace elemnts I'd personally use SeaChem Flourish as it cotains ALL of the required secondary & trace elements (apart from Nickel). If you are using tap water then this is fine (he says, depends on where you live etc). If using RO water then this may be an issue.

SeaChem Flourish contains: Nitrate, Phosphate, Potassium,Calcium, Magnesium, Manganese, Sulphur, Boron, Chlorine, Iron, Sodium. Traces: Copper, Molybdenum, Zinc, Cobalt
Nutrafin Plant Gro contains: Nitrogen, Iron, Manganese. Traces: Zinc, Boron, Copper, Molybdenum.
Compare this with what Tom Barr (of EI fame) I think uses Tropica Master Grow, and I am certainly not arguing with him!
Tropica Master Grow contains: Potassium, Magnesium, Manganese, Sulphur, Iron. Traces: Boron, Copper, Molybdenum, Zinc

All much of a muchness I guess!

Andy

 

[SuperColey1]

I was reading another thread earlier (can't remember which one) and someone said on there that GeorgeFarmer uses Tropica, so if he AND Tom Barr are using it, I guess that tells its own story.

AquaEssentials sell it, 500ml looks like it would last for a year on a 20G, so the price is OK.

 

[aquatic-Bizkut]

ok, so i dont want to end up spending any money, i was laid off at work so i dont have cash to spend on this little adventure

i ended up turning off my light and filter, i moved my loach, i have no fish in the tank, the lights have been off for around 5 days, and today i will do a complete water change, about 85% water change, i will throw away all my plants but keep my driftwood. so i will do a complete clean out. and i will ad small hearty fish, as well as start my co2 back up with this original mix:

-sugar to the bottom inside line
-water to the top inside line, just luke warm
-1/8-1/4 teaspoon yeast (active dry yeast)
-1/4-1 teaspoon baking soda (optional)

and i will keep my original light going (my coralife 65 watt)

sound good ?

 

[George Farmer]

....someone said on there that George Farmer uses Tropica

They are correct. I won't use anything else now for trace.

 

[voo]

....someone said on there that George Farmer uses Tropica

They are correct. I won't use anything else now for trace.

So the Tropica is better than the dry ferts trace mix?
On a larger tank would you use dry ferts or you'd still use Tropica?

 

[SuperColey1]

i will throw away all my plants but keep my driftwood. so i will do a complete clean out. and i will ad small hearty fish, as well as start my co2 back up with this original mix:

and i will keep my original light going (my coralife 65 watt)

sound good ?

Why you starting the CO2 back up if you're throwing all the plants out. The fish don't need CO2 adn without any plants to use it there is only 1 result. Algae!!

 

[George Farmer]

So the Tropica is better than the dry ferts trace mix?
On a larger tank would you use dry ferts or you'd still use Tropica?

I would say so.

Tropica AquaCare Nutrition for trace. Dry ferts for NPK.

 

[aquatic-Bizkut]

ok well i didnt end up starting my co2 back up yet. a very nice lady is sending me tons of plants, so i will use those and start my co2 back up.... i got a few fish, 4 neon jumbos. and the light is only on 7 hours a day right now. i have only a few plants. hopefully no algea.

should i take my coralife 65 watt off and put just a 15 watt bulb on top instead, until i get my plants?