What Does A Mature Tank Provide?

[Squid]

Maybe i should have put this in the beginners sections, but i am trying to avoid a load of replies with people explaining the nitrogen cycle . I did a fishless cycle a few months ago before adding any fish, but still encountered problems with fish such as angelfish (which i have learnt the hard way ) that need a more mature tank.

Now.. in the beginner section of these forums there is a pinned topic that describes new tank syndome, but only really details the the nitrogen cycle and how it works. Either there is much more to do with New Tank Syndrome (NTS), or there is just a period between initial NTS and a mature tank. I am interested to find out what a "cycled" tank does not have that a mature tank does have. Im sure part of it is just stability, which is obviously a help in fish keeping, but i would like peoples input as to what chemically, nutritionally or other is not present in an immature tank (if thats the right word).

I think this is often missunderstood by people, including myself, who perhaps were not as wise as we could have been when choosing fish for a new tank. Perhaps i was daft enough to believe that just because i was not using some fish for cycling and the tank was cycled, that it would be ok. I have lost a few panda cory's and a couple of angelfish due to this lack of experience, and i am keen to understand the mechanics of what went wrong. Don't bother flaming me, i hate the fact that i didn't know enough in the first place too. People always say research, but when you think you know enough information its difficult to know about things you did not come across in your research. Hence this question. We've all made mistakes.

Cheers
Squid

 

[soritan]

I think the really is, simply, "stability"... as you said. A newly cycled tank does have a tendancy to spike to and froe, in the beginning, whereas an older tank tends to be extremely solid.

Also, a 'mature' tank implies a mature tank care-taker. A person who is accustomed to a tank's cycle is better able to care for it, more apt to notice fluctuations.

Guesses, of course.


(edited for spelling, kinda)

 

[Bloo]

I wish I can remember the explanation or the thread someone gave several months ago - it was very good, but I just can't find it (which is unlike me ).

Anyway, in my experience (I've done the fish cycle, fishless cycle and cloning) a mature tank really is something that has been up and running established (under any of those methods) for at least 6 months.
A mature tank is far more stable and giving when it comes to little mishaps.
Such as a really large (or number of) water change(s), a too thorough filter clean, leaving the filter off for a few hours, adding a number of fish to raise the stocking level an extra 20+ percent in one go etc.
Most of those things would almost certainly trigger a mini cycle / spike in a young tank (less than 6 months of age) – where as it’s far more unlikely to happen that easily in a more mature tank.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

erm, i would think that in a newly cycled tank there would be 'enough' good bacteria in the filter medium and substrate to keep the tank running, but a mature tank would have more so it would keep the tank running more healthily and steadily.

also with established planting then levels of algae and co2 etc in the water should stabilise.

dunno really though, good question!

 

[Squid]

I wish I can remember the explanation or the thread someone gave several months ago - it was very good, but I just can't find it (which is unlike me ).

Anyway, in my experience (I've done the fish cycle, fishless cycle and cloning) a mature tank really is something that has been up and running established (under any of those methods) for at least 6 months.
A mature tank is far more stable and giving when it comes to little mishaps.
Such as a really large (or number of) water change(s), a too thorough filter clean, leaving the filter off for a few hours, adding a number of fish to raise the stocking level an extra 20+ percent in one go etc.
Most of those things would almost certainly trigger a mini cycle / spike in a young tank (less than 6 months of age) – where as it’s far more unlikely to happen that easily in a more mature tank.

Thanks bloo, i thought you might have a picture ... if you do find that thread, that would be great.

The list above shows some good examples of what a mature tank achieves and the benefits of such a tank, but im still a little guessing as to how it achieves it (not a critisism ) Is it the maturity of the bacteria colony is some way or another that means it can multiply at a greater rate and provide more of a buffer than a newer tank? Are there other bacteria forms that take a lot longer to evolve, but help to provide the stability that is present in a mature tank?

Thanks wiggle and soritan too.. !

Cheers
Squid

 

[Miss Wiggle]

no problem, really don't know the answers to your other questions though

and yes bloo, where's the helpful picture!!

 

[silver tipped]

Hi,

This has been quite helpful as my hubby wants to put neons on my15g tank which is 4 months old. i said that they should only go in an established tank of 6 months or more and he said why. Of course I didn't know why but I can at least give him some clues now.

Ta

 

[annka5]

It's always puzzled /confused me, too; the only explanations I've seen concentrate on marine tanks, where things like live rock will takes ages because the little critters in them develop at different times etc. I don't see how that explains it for a freshwater tank.
Also, it's commonplace for people rearing young discus (v.sensitive) to put them in bare-bottomed tanks, and wipe the inside glass daily with 50% daily water changes, syphoning the base of the tank daily, (with treated and aged water), cleaning filter sponges every second day or more. What lurks in there to make a difference?!
That's not really an answer, is it??!!

 

[Squid]

It's always puzzled /confused me, too; the only explanations I've seen concentrate on marine tanks, where things like live rock will takes ages because the little critters in them develop at different times etc. I don't see how that explains it for a freshwater tank.
Also, it's commonplace for people rearing young discus (v.sensitive) to put them in bare-bottomed tanks, and wipe the inside glass daily with 50% daily water changes, syphoning the base of the tank daily, (with treated and aged water), cleaning filter sponges every second day or more. What lurks in there to make a difference?!
That's not really an answer, is it??!!

Perhaps not an answer, but an interesting point. A mature tank definately helps with all the things that Bloo mentioned.. but how.. The discus example is an odd one eh..

Im glad other people are finding this a little complex. i'm still a newbie really, but its nice to know that this question is just totally daft

Squid

 

[Bloo]

It's always puzzled /confused me, too; the only explanations I've seen concentrate on marine tanks, where things like live rock will takes ages because the little critters in them develop at different times etc. I don't see how that explains it for a freshwater tank.
Also, it's commonplace for people rearing young discus (v.sensitive) to put them in bare-bottomed tanks, and wipe the inside glass daily with 50% daily water changes, syphoning the base of the tank daily, (with treated and aged water), cleaning filter sponges every second day or more. What lurks in there to make a difference?!
That's not really an answer, is it??!!

Most discus breeders use RO water with rock solid optimum parameters. I'm speculating here: but if they clean so thoroughly and perform 50% daily changes and wipe the insides of the tank, there is little to go wrong on a mature filter. The beneficial bacteria will still adhere to the surface area of anything in the tank (even just the glass and silicone). These bacteria aren't visible to the naked eye, so it's not like we can just wipe it all off unless it's somehow sterlised every day.

 

[annka5]

But with discus, breeders wipe down the inside of the tanks specifically to limit bacterial build-up - clean tank glass means less food etc for the bacteria.
I'm not suggesting that their would be no bacteria, but that there is a limited amount becuase of these actions. Similar maybe to a tank that's been cylced but is only running a couple of months.

 

[Bloo]

Unfortunately I really do not know anything about discus breeders so could only speculate on how they keep their tanks ticking over. Perhaps we should ask a Discus breeder (who specifically breeds in this manner) for their point of view

But as of your "normal" freshwater tanks, there a very clear and distinct difference in the stability of younger and mature tanks.

 

[Squid]

Appreciate the comments!

Perhaps this is one for the-wolf...

 

[CFC]

Over time in any tank a substance known as bio film builds up on everything in the tank, stick your hand in a well established tank and run your fingers across the apperently clean glass, it feels kind of slimey. This film is a collection of bacteria, algea and microscopic organisms that survive by taking nutrients from the water and breaking them down before they can reach levels that are harmfull, a kind of organic filtration system that only time can provide. The older the tank is the more layers of bio film there are and the more bomb proof the tank becomes, ive had 4 year old tanks which are heavily stocked where ive forgotten to plug the filter back in over night and not even seen a nitrite spike.

 

[Majjie]

CFC has (unsurprisingly) said it all. The study of biofilms is a very trendy scientific topic - they tend to build up inside feed tubes and the like, used for hospital patients. The presence of a whole community of bugs disrupts the actions of antibiotics and stuff designed to kill them.

Think of your tank as a bacterial garden - but unfortunatley you can't see the plants. When freshly cycled you have a community of weed bacteria - fast growing, opportunists, throwing out a lot of chemicals into the water (but a whole lot better than no bacteria at all).

What you need to develop is a mixed border of cultivated bugs, a consortium interacting with each other, using each others chemical by-products and much less affected by exterior chemicals.