Water Conditions Suddenly Change?

[Chtheo]

Hi,

I have recently began stocking my tank, The tank its self has been a bit of a nightmare to start up, i had massive algae issues which i got under control. now now i have a few dead fish!

Before starting to stock my tank, i made sure it was stable, so for 2 weeks before putting fish in, i did tests using my API Freshwater test kit. Everything looked fine for the fishies! (amonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate <5ppm)

I dont know how much further on we are now. But slowly i have added small amounts of fish to this tank. it contained (as of tuesday night)

(Added before Algae problems)
1 Striped Golden Apple Snail.

(added Week 1)
2 German Rams,
2 Red Rams,

(added Week 2)
2 Bristle Nose Plecs
2 Ottos

(Added week 3)
5 Pygmy Corridoras

Yesterday morning i came in to find the 2 German Rams Dead. The red Rams seemed to have their Gils out and breathing heavily. the other fish, however, seemed fine!

i did a water test, and the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate were off the charts! I did a 25% water change (as thats all the RO I had) The Red Rams calmed down and got back to their usual selves, and the corries went abouttheir usual routine, the plecs are more active and the ottos seem fine too.

However,

I come in thisw morning, and the RAMS are doign the same thing (GILS puffed out, and breathign heavily) So i do another water check, and things have got better (a bit...) The ammonia is sitting at 0.25ppm (obviously not ideal, but better than the 8ppm+ that is was yesterday), my nitrite is either 2 or 5ppm (colours are very similar i cant tell them apeart!) and my Nitrate is currently sitting at 80ppm. with levels like this - how the hell do i still have fish?

Aside from switching to new ferts (Aqua Nourish, and Nourish +) i have changed nothing in this tank. I been using them for a week today, and done 2 water changes in that time (in the process of a third)

Is it the ferts? or could it be something else? Is there any way i can get this more stable without daily water changes? (i have been off work ill this week, so not such an issue, but when i am back this might go bad!)

My set up is as follows:

Tank: 60x30x36cm(24x12x15inch)
Filter: 1100lph Canister with built in UV Sterlizer
Lighting: 1 24W sera Daylight t5, 1 24W Arcadia Plant Pro (on between 10am-8pm)
Heater: Inline 300w
Temp: 26C
CO2: D-D Pressurised System with Solenoid (Works between 10am-8pm)

Thanks,

 

[Prime Ordeal]

To cut a long story short you've got too many fish in an uncycled tank.

You need to do constant water changes (using an ammonia detoxifying dechlorinator such as Seachem Prime) to keep the ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm.

If you are able to return any of the fish to the fish shop then do so, it will make your and, more importantly, your fish's lives so much easier. When the tank has cycled (in about six to eight weeks) you can stock up again.

If you are able to get hold of some mature media (sponge, floss etc.) from a friend or fish shop then do so as it will speed up your cycle dramatically.

 

[Chtheo]

Thanks for the input.

I can easily get some mature media from my main tank. In total this tank has been set up and running for 9 weeks. it had been going for 5 weeks without any fish, before i added an apple snail.

While i accept that i may have added a few fish too fast, and this may not be helping, i am struggling to see how this is the root cause, as before adding fish fish and shortly after adding them, i tested my water to make sure conditions were stable, and until today they were.

I will keep up the water changes, and do what i can for the fish. As well as moving over some mature filter media from my main tank, as this will all help what ever the issue may be.

please forgive me if this sounds a little beligerant (if that is the correct word) but i honestly wouldnt have done anything to intentionally harm the fish, nor would i have done anything i havent done many times before. In the past i have cycled tanks for 1 week with no issues, but i thought i was "playing it safe" by leaving this one to go for 5.

either way, i have completed the waterchange now, and the fish are fine for the time being.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

To cycle a tank you have to have a source of ammonia being introduced to it constantly. To do that you either introduce fish or you do a fishless cycle and manually add bottled ammonia.

Leaving a tank without fish and no other source of ammonia doesn't cycle it, which is why you have those problems.

It's impossible to cycle a tank in one week without the introduction of mature media and/or a bacterial supplement.

The added media and water changes should have you sorted in quick time.

Just ask if you need any more help or clarification.

 

[Chtheo]

when i very first set up the filter i did use media from my established tank, admitedly not much but it hadnt been long since i had replaced some of the media in that filter (i got my timings a little messed up!) and i didnt want to cause problems with that one. Also, what i normally do (as advised on another forum, i forget which one) get a pair of tights (I feel a bit stupid buying them but oh well!) and put a bit of food in it. and float it for the week, do a 50% water change and ready (provided tests are ok). Also, to help witht he algae/bacterial issues, a friend recomended "Special Blend" Which smelt like death, but apparently has good bacteria in it.

obviosuly it might not be ideal, and until now i have had generally hardier fish. This is my first R/O Set up, and the first time i have had RAMs. so i figured leaving it longer than the 1 week, would help. That said, i didnt leave the food in the tights for the whole time, as i soon had plants in it and i was fertalising them.

for future refference could you tell me; What is the best way to cycle a tank? as obviously what i have been doing is inadequate. Thanks!

 

[Prime Ordeal]

OK, so if I understand you correctly you added mature media, a bacterial supplement and produced ammonia with flake food.

That's all fine but clearly something went wrong somewhere because your tank is not cycled now.

A better method would just be to add bottled ammonia because you then have complete control over the quantity you are adding. With flake you don't have that control.

What you do is dose to a low level (below 5ppm) and wait for that to be used up, you then continue to redose until the ammonia and nitrite fall to zero within 12 hours.

It's not that the method you used is wrong, it just isn't ideal.

I do note that you're using CO2 which drives the pH down so what's the tank pH at the moment? If it's really low (less than 6 say) it's quite possible that that's what's stalled the cycle.

 

[Chtheo]

I think that may have hit the nail on the head, at about the time i put the snail in, i had a timer switch malfunction which kept pumping CO2 into the tank (for at least 24 hours, at quite a high rate)

I must admit it never occured to me that this might impact the cycling of the tank. I just presumed once the PH got back to normal it would be ok. I guess, also in conjunction with using new ferts, that require weekly water changes in an established tank, i have compounded the issue? does that seem logical?

I will continue to go with the original plan, and reseed the filter media etc. I just didnt want to do all that only to find that the problem would repeat itself in a few months.

Also, something that might not be helping, due to ambient, the temperature in the tank has increased. This might not be causing the increase in bad stuff, but will be adding extra stress to the fish. so I have dropped to running on 1 bulb. Any ideas how i can drop the temperature safely?

 

[Prime Ordeal]

This is where telling all is important when you have a problem like this. Even the smallest thing which you may not think impacts your problem often does.

Live and learn eh, at least we've got to the bottom of it.

By the way, that timer problem would be instant death if you had any fish in when it happened. This is why I don't like CO2 injection, but that's just me.

The ferts are unlikely to be aggrevating the problem, but personally I would keep things simple until the tank is cycled again and leave them out for now.

The increased temperature will help the cycle but, as you say, will not be helping the fish. Keep all lights off and shade, by whatever means, the tank from direct sunlight. Then add some bottles of crushed ice to the water. At the moment reducing stress on the fish is more important than lighting etc.

And can you not return some of the fish to the other tank until this one is cycled again?

 

[Chtheo]

i could probably move the corries, and maybe the plecs if i can catch them, my tap water is more or less liquid rock (the wonders of living in the middle of no where!) as for the RAMs they wouldnt last 5 seconds in the tap i have here.

And for the same reasons, i would be unsure about using ice made fromt he tap water here. Will R/O Freeze?

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Ice is ice (to the purists I'm well aware that it ain't)!

It's going into bottles (sealed very well). It poses no risks to the fish.

It sounds like you're somewhere where ice doesn't exist!

If you can make ice it doesn't matter what it contains, it's going into a well sealed bottle!

 

[Dazzler666]

Just on the back of this, of you add nature media to another filter do you still follow the say fish less cycling, adding ammonia? If not what is the best way to help good bacteria that has been transferred cultivate?
I'm sorry I can't help as I'm a novice myself but this thread is very informative.
Hope you solve the problem quickly & suffer no more losses.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Just on the back of this, of you add nature media to another filter do you still follow the say fish less cycling, adding ammonia?

Yes that's exactly what you do. You dose ammonia at a low level, wait for it to be eaten up by the bacteria and continue doing that until the ammonia (and nitrite) falls to zero within 12 hours.

 

[Dazzler666]

Thanks Prime, much appreciated. Can you recommend any particular ammonia? I'm aware it needs to be pure ammonia with no additives. Did see a thread on here about it the other week .... Will start trawling!!!
Thanks again!! ☺.