Want 2 Start Fowlr Tank

[navy]

Hi there,

After 5 years of keeping FW fish, my bf and I are ready to head into SW territory

I've read books, forums etc etc, but I really like this forum, and the answers I get from it, so I thought I would get a few suggestions/help.

We have a 290L tank, any suggestions on stocking? We like puffer, lion fish etc...but am not sure if the tank is big enough for these type....

Also how much LR do we actually need? I read its expensive....

I'm from Australia BTW.

Any help/suggestions would be great, thanks!!

 

[Colin_T]

290litres is fine for a lionfish and a couple of other species. Keep an eye on the puffers because they have a habit of nipping things including your fingers.
You put as much rock in the tank as you want. The rock does displace water tho so the more rock the less water. If you don't want to buy live rock go to the beach and grab a few pieces from the water. As long as its not from a marine park you are fine.
In a fish and rock tank you can use fluoros to light the tank.
What else do you want to know?

 

[andywg]

Watch what species of lion you get. 290l is not enough for a full grown volitans.

 

[SkiFletch]

You could also consider a smaller planktivore trigger like a Niger trigger.

 

[navy]

Thanks for the replies! If I were to get live Rock from the beach, is this safe for the tank? Is it the same as going to the shops and getting it? I mean do I just collect it and put it straight in the tank or would I have to do something to it first? Is there any advantage of having more LR? I read that its good filtration?

I was thinking of the Dwarf Lion fish its cute and doesn't need a huge tank, 290L would be enough right? I know its spikes are dangerous though lol.

****** Trigger is interesting.....

Can I put a Box Fish with the Lionfish? I think its called the Cow Box fish. Can anybody recommend a website that has easy to read capability for marine fish?

thanks again!!

 

[Colin_T]

As long as the beach hasn't been contaminated with oil or other chemicals rock is safe from the beach.
The rock from the shops is usually shipped from a coral reef whereas the stuff from a temperate beach will be limestone covered in algae and other things. It works the same but is a heck of a lot cheaper than the tropical stuff and you won't get any mantis shrimp in the rock.
You go to the beach with some plastic buckets, put a few bits of rock from the water in the bucket and add some seawater. Then take it home and put it straight into the tank. You can use the seawater from the beach to fill up the tank too. If you boil or dry out the rock it is no longer “live rock”.
The main reason for having live rock in a fish tank is to make it look nice. In a coral tank it is used to build the reef for the corals to sit on. A lot of people also use it to filter the water. The rock has a large surface area that gets covered in beneficial bacteria that breaks down the ammonia produced by the fish. It does the same thing as a filter. However in a predator tank with lionfish, etc it is best to have a power or trickle filter on the tank as they produce too much ammonia for the rock to deal with and you get lots of waste being produced that must be removed from the water.
Dwarf lionfish are fine and so are black triggers. Boxfish or cowfish will be fine with lionfish as long as they can't fit in the lionfish's mouth.
It is a good idea to have a protein skimmer on a predator tank to help keep the water clean.

 

[navy]

Oh thanks Colin! That's a big help. I asked the fish shop if I could just go get my own Sea Water and they said unless I go out in a boat and collect it its not very safe, as like you mentioned might be contaminated with oil etc. Unfortunately I live in an area whereas the beaches aren't fantastic, but if I travelled say 1-2 hrs to go get it from some secluded beaches, would the LR survive the travel time if its in Sea Water? I will do some more research on this, but your advice has pointed me in the right direction.

Oh I will definitely have a filter (not just the rock) and protein skimmer Also I have a filter I used for the FW tank, will it be alright for the SW one once I clean it out?

 

[Colin_T]

Filters are the same for fresh or saltwater so yep you can use your old filter on the marine tank. Just rinse it out with freshwater and replace the carbon if you have any and away you go. If you have Ammogon (ammonia absorbing granules) in your freshwater filter, remove them because they don't work in saltwater. Ammogon is a small white granulated substance designed to remove ammonia from freshwater. It is about the size of aquarium gravel and normally comes in a prepacked bag that you drop into the filter and replace every month.
The only other thing about filters for a marine tank is they should turn the tank's water volume over at least 5 times an hour, (preferably more often). This helps to get rid of any ammonia produced as quickly as possible, thus reducing stress on the fish and other inhabitants.

If you want to bring live rock back from a distance then try to aerate the water in the buckets with the rock. If you can't do that then put the rock in an esky, styrofoam box, and only have a couple of inches of water in with it. Then cover the rock with a wet towel or paper. Soak a tea-towel in seawater and cover the rock. Then put the lid on the esky an away you go. You might get some die off but most of the stuff living on it should be ok.

I get my seawater from a local beach and have never had any problems with pollution. You simply look and see if there is any oil or rubbish floating on the water and if there is you go somewhere else. Generally the waves turn the water over pretty well and unless you are in a harbour you should have fairly clean seawater. You can also check for fish and plant life under the water. If there are lots of fishy type things swimming around in the water and it doesn't smell then it should be fine. If however the beaches have industrrial areas near them then look elsewhere.

 

[navy]

thanks again Colin, u r a great help! This makes getting a marine tank much more affordable. I will scout out some beaches hehe.

I just noticed that you are from Perth too! Cool

 

[navy]

Also do you guys think $5 for 20 L of Sea Water is reasonable? That's what the local fish shop is quoting me.

 

[Colin_T]

I think my LFS charges about 45cents per litre.
I get my water from Trigg.

 

[Lynden]

Water flow is to cycle oxygen and simply "create flow"; it has no bearing on the speed of ammonia reduction. With good quality live rock this won't be an issue anyways.

You can use any filter for aquaria but it would be much more useful, if one has live rock, to remove the biological media and replace it with granular ferric oxide (a phosphate reducer).

Box fish... to be honest I would not recommend these to anyone. They are great little fish, but best observed in the wild. If stressed they can release a toxin (ostraciitoxin) that acts as a biocide in aquaria if not removed by carbon, aggressive skimming and an fast water change of 90-100% of the tank's volume.

You could keep a niger trigger in a 290 litre tank but may overgrow it in time. Consider a smaller planktonivore (such as a bluethroat, Xanthichthys auromarginatus) or a Rhinecanthus.

In my opinion the quoted price is high. Hope to have helped.

 

[navy]

Hi there,

Ok I went to the LFS and he said I need alot of Live Rock, $500 worth actually. I have a 4x2.5x1.5 tank, how much live rock in weight do I need to avoid issues etc in future? He said if I didn't put enough LR I would have ongoing issues...he also said I can't go to any Beaches around my area because the LR would be in cold water, they get it imported from another State.

Well the Water here in Melbourne, Australia is obviously quite expensive compared to other places, because I got pretty much the same quote at most places.

We have narrowed down to: Valentini Puffer + Dwarf Lion Fish + Blue Tang + various small fish etc. Do you think they will live peacefully and is the tank big enough?

I don't fully trust anything the LFS says, so its great to get some reassurance from here as well

thanks guys!

 

[Colin_T]

Starting at the bottom and working up, your choice of fish is fine, but watch the small fish. Lionfish will eat anything that fits in their mouth.
Live rock can come from cold or warm water it doesn't make any diff because the tank will be heated anyway. Once the rock has been in the warm water for a few minutes it will be tropical live rock. Besides it is summer now and the seawater is going to be about 24C, which also happens to be tropical. Ergo any rock you pull out of the ocean now is going to be warm water live rock.
As for how much rock to add depends on your personal choice. Because you are having a filter running on the tank it doesn't matter if you have 1 piece or 100 pieces. Put a few nice shaped bits in the tank and make it look pretty. Make sure you can see behind all the rock so if you have to put your hand in the tank you can see where the lionfish is and avoid him.
You can use beach sand as well or crushed shell for the bottom. I use a green aquarium fish net and seive the sand near the shore. I get a nice mix of finely crushed shell.
Your LFS is probably getting their rock from Qld or WA. It is fine to use if you want but whether or not you want to spend $500 on it is up to you. Personally I would go to the beach.
Shops are in the business of making money. They would prefer you to buy their imported rock rather than go collect your own. Having said that tropical live rock does sometimes have nice things growing on it. I usually advise people use local rock to build the basic reef in the tank and then add pieces of tropical rock if they find something they really like. But it is the same basic stuff.

 

[navy]

Thanks Colin!!!! One more question..........do I need a Sump? I have heard about them, and read a little about them (most of it I don't understand). Would I need one for a FOWLR?