Using One Med Then Another...

[SouthernCross]

Hi all

Until yesterday I had a dwarf gourami who had a ulcer, who became very sick. I had to wait a few days for meds to be delivered, but I started Myxazin on the night of the 8th, but unfortunately it was too late and my gourami died overnight.

I obviously didn't bother continuing the Myxazin yesterday or today. But I want to run some Sterazin because I've had 2/3 platies (and I noticed one cory today) flicking on and off for over a week. Bit of fin clamping (tail and dorsal) from the platies too. I'd prioritized the gourami though, hence running the Myxazin first. They've continued flicking through regular water changes so I don't think water changes are enough to cut it. I've been watching closely to see if any white spots were developing but after this whole time the scales have been clear. Water stats below so I don't think that is causing it. At this point I'm guessing gill flukes or something? I also have Protozin, but since I don't think it's the whitespot I think I'l go with the Sterazin (well it says for flicking when no other symptoms present!).

My main question is - its been 48 hours since the Myzaxin (I know it says don't use Protozin within 4 days of Myxazin, but I wasn't sure about the Sterazin so I've left it - 2 days so far anyway) do I need to do anything else before starting the next med? Is it essential to run carbon or not? Will another water change make any difference? Last one was 2 days ago just before adding the Myxazin. My main concern is stressing my fish with a new med if there's still a strong concentratrion of the old one in there. Will the Myxazin mostly have eliminated itself? Can I just start the Sterazin?

Carbon -if I do HAVE to run it - how long for? It's a pain changing my UGF to a carbon top thing, and the HOB is a brand new addition and I don't really want to pull the extra sponge out which is colonizing and stick the carbon bag in too.

Water stats - the last 4 times I've checked (last time on the 8th) my stats have been great at Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10. I don't use salt cause of the cories. Fish are feeding normally, not gasping, tank has loads of surface movement for aeration with UGF and HOB filters.

Thanks very much

Oh, P.S. A friend has offered to give me some fish she doesn't want this week - is it a terrible idea to add them while treating? I don't have a quarantine tank (yet - this gourami experience has taught me a lesson). Would it be best to tell her no and wait after the 10 day Sterazin treatment to get new fish? Since the death my tank looks verrrrrry empty . It's 39 gal with now only 3 platies and 2 cories....

 

[SouthernCross]

21 views and no one knows anything?

 

[celaeno]

it's recommended to run activated carbon to remove meds, as water changes will only dilute the concentration of the meds.

 

[Tolak]

I saw this last night, but thought I'd wait until someone with experience with those specific meds saw this. That isn't happening, so...

As long as you have been doing regular water changes I would do a 50% water change, wait a few hours, than do a second 50% water change. This will eliminate any meds by dilution, while not subjecting fish to any undue stress from a huge difference in water. The small amount of carbon in the top of the ugf doesn't do much, you are better off going at it with water changes. Since I've never used any of the meds you mentioned, I couldn't tell you if they can be mixed. Those are meds mainly used in the UK, I was hoping Wilder would see this & post, you may want to try shooting her a pm.


Medicating well fish is a bad idea, as they may build a tolerance to the meds you are using, making those meds useless in the future by creating a drug resistant strain. I would hold off until you are done medicating.

 

[SouthernCross]

Thanks very much Tolak. I'll do a series of water changes then.

Though I'm not sure now whether I should treat at all... The flicking/fin clamping seems to be very sporadic. Sometimes they seem perfectly fine for ages, then they'll go on a flicking rampage. 2/3 flick, all three clamp, although the last only noticed today clamping. If it was bad wouldn't they be flicking constantly? Is it something that can clear up on its own or will it eventually kill my fish? Contagious to others? Like you said Tolak, if its not that bad the medicine can have a detrimental effect...it will still be some time before a quarantine is up and running. Aaargh what to do? Should I treat just in case???

Not to mention I just spotted a single platy fry exploring the tank...I know the medicine will probably kill it (if something else doesn't before) but it's my first fry and as you can imagine, I'm feeling a little, well, protective

 

[SouthernCross]

*Bumping*

Also I put the carbon on the UGF anyway since I had the top off doing a water change, I'll let that run for a bit.

Still keen for some answers to the above... Still not sure whether I should treat! They're fine for ages....then flicking and clamping....then fine again.... What to do!

Also - If I were to say get a 10 or so gallon quarantine tank in the next few days - would fry survive (only 1 or 2) in it if it wasn't cycled? It just seems to me they're so small they would produce minimal waste so I didn't know if this would be safer for them being in that than being exposed to the 10 day full strength Sterazin treatment? I'd put them back in the main tank after the treatment was over then get on with cycling it properly of course....thoughts???

 

[WILDER]

Sorry didn't look at your post as I saw tolak replying.

Did the fish flick before you added the myxazin med, as meds can make them flick.
Signs of flukes are red inflamed gills, or pale with excess mucas on them.
Laboured breathing, flicking and rubbing.
Swimming in a jerky movement, and shying at things, being lethagic, can lose weight.

Waterlife meds if they do have flukes that waterlife med is no good used it and it did nothing.

Also ulcers can be due to parasites will get you a link.


http/www.fbas.co.uk/Ulcers.html

http/article.dphnet.com/cat-02/flukes1.shtml

 

[SouthernCross]

The gourami with the ulcer died - so that doesn't matter anymore

Yes they were flicking before the Myxazin - I was tossing up who to treat first but the gourami was in dire straits so I went there first. Was talking to sylvia about it - she said that dwarf gouramis are very prone to that type of thing and there wasn't a whole lot I could have done for him.

Back to the platies - Yes flicking before Myxazin. Like I said above, very sporadic now, though I tend to notice the fin clamping more than the flicking. But I still see it sometimes. My water stats are good (listed above) so water quality isn't an issue. Actually they were in there before the tank was cycled (newbie mistake ) and they never exhibited this behaviour when there was nitrites present back when it was still cycling so it makes me think its not just the water (which is fine anyway...)

Its hard to tell with the gills - two of them are the colour types which have a lot of pink around their gills which makes it hard. But on the one that isn't (worst flicking culprit), I really can't notice anything - I'm looking pretty hard and I guess it would appear obvious to me? Their scales are completely clear, not raise, no muck on them. This has been going on probably for near two weeks now - which made me think its NOT ich, I woulda thought I would see the 'salt' by now?
None of them are gasping at the top (I have lots of surface movement), still eating well.... Not really jerky swimming - but I've noticed when one guy flicks he goes on a rampage and shoots around the tank really fast flicking on things. Tends to lean with his head first - makes me think hes rubbing at his gills? One just tends to hover in one spot a bit with her fins clamped occasionally.

I don't know whether its an issue but there's been some white floaty stuff growing on the plants, corners of the tank - is this a fungus, could this be hurting them? I tried to remove a bit of it/knock it off the plants when I was cleaning

I think what I thought was a cory flicking once was a mistake. I've never seen them do it again.

So - I don't know what to do!

Meds I have - Myxazin, Sterazin, Protozin (but didn't think it was whitespot..)

Thanks for any help you can offer

 

[WILDER]

Leaning of the head sounds like a parasite like gill flukes.
Take the fish and wrap in a cloth that been soaked in tank water.
Sterlise some tweezers and gently pull back the gill flap and take a look with a magifying glass to see if you can see a parasite.

http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?...products_id=138

Whats your ph reading as that med only any good at ph above 7.

 

[SouthernCross]

Oh god, that sounds a bit traumatic. It's nearly dark now so I'll wait until I have good light tomorrow morning to try that...should it be obvious??? The link you provided describes worms - are these different to flukes? Will I know straightaway what I'm looking at?

Yes, my PH sits constantly at around 7.2-7.4 range. Never under 7.

Again, its been completely sporadic - when I got home then they're all swimming happily with fins up. 2 hours later I saw one flicking. *sigh*

Would the fry by ok in an uncycled tank? I asked a few posts up...

 

[WILDER]

No the fry won't be ok in a uncycled tank.
Plus flukes you have to treat the whole tank.
The fluke it think look like a white worm.