Unknown Problem

[LisaLQ]

Please see these two threads:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=172445&hl=

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...173335&st=0

Params:
Amm - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - <20
pH - 6.8
temp - 80f
Tank size - 6ft x 2ft x 2ft - 180 US gallons
Tank inhabitants: 2 x common plecs (4" and 7"), 1 x rusty plec (6"), 1 x bristlenose (4-5"), 4 x boesmanni rainbows (2" max), 2 x juvie severums (4" - were due to be rehomed but am hanging on to them til I know it's safe to pass them on to their new home), 2 x herotilapia multispinosa (4")
Maintenance routine - 1-2 water changes a week at about 30% with dechlor, gravel vac each time.

I've lost three plecs in my tank over the last couple of months - one flash plec (from what I think was a combination of treatment for whitespot in his old tank, wounds from flicking and subsequent infection - all treated - but also bullied by festivums which were previously in the tank), one gold nugget (what I assumed at the time to be starvation from lack of gut flora - common problem with baby GNs who've been shipped over - he was hollow bellied when he arrived and never fattened up) and most recently my L203. I have absolutely no idea what he died from - when he arrived he was very dull looking with pale circles round his eyes, some torn fins/tail, but he was eating well - and over the last couple of weeks he brightened up, got fatter (not in a poorly overly fat way though - just rounded off), his colour improved dramatically. I was showing him off the day before yesterday to KathyM, as his colours were fantastic - a huge improvement, and his fins had grown back and his tail was starting to also. Here's a pic of when he arrived - dont have an after shot I'm afraid as my new camera is knackered and I have to buy a new one:

2 days later (23/12)

At the same time as getting him, we also added 7 boesmanni - 3 of which have subsequently died - one from being snacked on by the festivums (now removed), one found dead with no exterior symptoms - had been eating well, and the last one from what I thought might be a columnaris outbreak. I added salt to the tank as a preventative as none of the others were displaying any major symptoms only a small amount of white papery film on their top lips - they have since recovered, and the L203s fins were healing up well after the salt was added. All other fish are well, no illness, no odd behaviour, growing nicely and in good colour.

As I said, the plec had no outward signs or symptoms - he was looking brilliant, eating tonnes, pooing plenty (as most panaques do!), not behaving strangely. Then we just found him dead.

So, basically - we have no idea what's caused his death - whether it was the salt, or an internal infection, or maybe even just bad stock (all the poorly/dead fish came from the same LFS and supplier). We dont know if it was connected to the other deaths or just bad luck.

I was wondering - is there anything I can blanket treat the tank with as a precaution? Despite vowing yesterday I was packing it all in, I do want to carry on and re-stock in a few weeks when all is clear, but dont want to leave it to wait and see and lose what I put in next, if there is a chance there's something going round my tank.

Any suggestions?

 

[black angel]

If it is columnaris then it can kill fish in less than 24 hours from infection and at higher temperatures 12 hours.
From the first fish you noticed it on was that fish new and if not what new stock was put in the tank from a day or two before it? Are you quarantining new fish before they go in?
The salt wont be doing much at that doseage for fish with columnaris, it needs to be triple that dose but of course you cant do that with sensitive plecs. If it isnt columnaris then the salt wont be much use other than stress at that dose as it doesnt help with bacterial or viral conditions.
Can you get maracyn 1 and 2? It can sometimes be bought from ebay or try and get it shipped to you from the US.
The temperature being so high is worrying as columnaris thrives at those high temps.

Keep on with the water changes and gravel vacs to try and keep the bacteria under control and make sure if you have more than one tank not to cross contaminate anything. If you put your hands in the water always wash thoroughly before seeing to another tank.

Its hard to say though if it is columnaris or not as wild caught plecs could be harbouring anything.

Sorry about whats happening though as they are beautiful plecs.

 

[LisaLQ]

From the first fish you noticed it on was that fish new and if not what new stock was put in the tank from a day or two before it? Are you quarantining new fish before they go in?

The rainbow fish was the first and only fish to have any proper symptoms, they were added a couple of days before that, and no they weren't quarantined. With all due respect, I know that was wrong, and am now trying to find a way to fix it rather than lay yet more blame on myself. I've already done enough of that myself.

The salt wont be doing much at that doseage for fish with columnaris, it needs to be triple that dose but of course you cant do that with sensitive plecs. If it isnt columnaris then the salt wont be much use other than stress at that dose as it doesnt help with bacterial or viral conditions.

I posted the other day about salt dosages, and one person replied offering help - obviously I wanted to try anything to prevent further fish getting poorly, and so far it has worked. If I'd have known what you said (about stressing the fish and doing no good) I wouldn't have bothered, but obviously if no-one tells you these things - what can you do? It was an emergency, hence being on the emergencies board.

Can you get maracyn 1 and 2? It can sometimes be bought from ebay or try and get it shipped to you from the US.

I'd rather stick to medications safe for use in the UK. I also dont know if it would be a good idea to wait that long to treat the tank - I'd rather get meds in straight away and dose asap, rather than wait a week or two (or longer) for some from abroad. Sorry. Obviously if there's a UK equivalent, I'd be interested in brand names

The temperature being so high is worrying as columnaris thrives at those high temps.

I cant get the temps in our tanks lower, the heaters are on their lowest setting - and rarely come on. No idea why - they're not faulty, it's certainly not the sub-tropical temperatures in Yorkshire although hubby does like the heating on fairly warm (it's about 24c, dont know what that equates to in F).

Sorry if I come across as snappy, I'm tired, very sore, fed up and in need of help. I do have a quarantine tank planned, in fact it's sitting in my dining room waiting to be set up (need somewhere to put it - stand wise) - but obviously, what's done is done and I dont have the time or the patience to be told off for not quarantining now - I know what I did was stupid, I really dont need telling again. I was assured by the LFS that the plec had been in for a few weeks, and the rainbows would have been also when I ordered them in - obviously now I know differently

 

[black angel]

I only asked if you quarantine before adding to the tank. No way was it a lecture as I have added fish before with no quarantine and suffered as a result.

I wont post any more as obviously you take everything I say the wrong way.

Good luck with your fish.

 

[morgan]

Can I suggest some things which I use? I know it is not really approved of on here but the proof of the pudding is in the eating! At every water change I use Stress Coat and Stress Zyme. Stress Zyme helps to keep the tank clean. I am not suggesting at all that you don't clean your tank but maybe if there is something going on in the tank Stress Zyme could help. I change 15% of water once a week. (65UKgal tank). I run my tank at 78 degrees. I also run a carbon sponge all the time (Juwel tank). I know more expert fishkeepers will strongly argue against all the things I have just said but it works for me, I have never had any disease in the tank. I also do not quarantine new fish (only have one tank). Anyway something to consider (or not!). Hope it all goes well from now on.

 

[LisaLQ]

I only asked if you quarantine before adding to the tank. No way was it a lecture as I have added fish before with no quarantine and suffered as a result.

I wont post any more as obviously you take everything I say the wrong way.

Good luck with your fish.

I dont think I took anything the wrong way, to be honest, it was the tone in your post that probably got my back up a little, but I'm sure you didn't mean it. I did apologise in the thread for being defensive - but my message was as much aimed at anyone who might be posting afterwards as at you. Dont take it personally - I just dont see the point in asking whether I quarantined or not when I wasn't asking what had gone wrong - I know what went wrong - I was a numpty - again, and thought I could get away with it. That's what I meant. If we have no idea what illness if any is going on in my tank, what will asking if I quarantined them or not do? Other than remind me untactfully what a prat I am?

 

[LisaLQ]

Anyone?

 

[LisaLQ]

Do you think I should do a 5 day course of Myxazin and Pimafix just to make sure if it was columnaris that it's 100% cleared up?

Did another 30% change last night and gravel vac, didn't add salt back into it - so slowly diluting it out. Doing another change tonight as plecs have made big mess with courgette and makes sense to get some more of the salt out of there while I'm on.

But I really want to start treating the tank to make sure if it was something it doesn't come back - should I go ahead with the Myxazin and Pimafix?

 

[WILDER]

If the fish are showing no symtoms just some daily water changes.