Unknown Fish - White Lump In Mouth - Urgent!

[TheUnknown]

Hi, I know this is my first post but i am really hoping you guys can help me out!

I have a 120ltr "Jewel" tank.

There are:

2 Apple Snails

4 Guramies
3 Plattys
5 Zebra Dannios
6 Corrys
5 Tetras
4 Ram Cichlids
A few more that I cannot see at the moment - Only small fish.
and
1 Unidentified fish which is currently the problem.

I cannot for the life of my think of what he is called and at the moment, isn't it always the case when you need it! - my internet has died so I am having to use dial-up - so am unable to look it up.

He has a white lump in his mouth as if he is sucking a dummy, it is clearly casuing him destress as he is "bombing" around shaking his head etc.

I believe the fish is a female, is shiny brown, has huge elegant fins and two black spots her back (They have always been there)

Tank Temperature: 26-27
GH: 60
KH 0
PH: 6
Nitrate: 160
Nitrite: 0
Other Fish: All healthy

I have just got a "5-1 API Test Kit" second hand and it didn't come with the book that tells you what the results should be so i was hoping you could also tell me this as all the books I have looked at contradict each other.

EDIT:

The tank is about 5 months old.
I change the water every week, about 25% water change.
I have not added any new fish/snails/rocks/wood recently.

I am currently at a loss as to what is happening as I am not having much luck with my fish as have lost a couple over the last month, it seems there is never a break when there isn't something wrong - abet minor things included. All thought it seems to be something different every time, the last one was a goldfish with swim bladder - didn't last long enough for the treatment to do anything and before that a scissor-tail with little parasites - also didn't last long enough.

I hope this is enough information.

Please help a lady out.

Cheers,
Karen

 

[Miss Wiggle]

hiya Karen, just saw your post on the PFK website (i get around)

as i said there the first thing to determine is if your tank is cycling and the filter coping as the high nitrate reading is worrying, read the link in my sig 'what's cycling?' which should explain what cycling is and what all your readings should be.

if you can then get ammonia and nitrite readings for us we can start to figure out what is wrong.

 

[TheUnknown]

Thank you again for your help, the "Nitrite" reading is intact "0"

I will read your information now.

Although I am slightly more concerned that my lovely fish is going to die on me. (Not being arrogant I will also be looking to solve the Nitrate problem).

Is it a good idea to separate the fish in a floating separation/breading box?

Cheers,
Karen

 

[Miss Wiggle]

need to know ammonia as well.

i don't take it as arrogance Karen don't worry, obviously you need to diagnose and treat the fish in question, but bear in mind without solving the root cause of the problem you will never be rid of it, you mentioned you have other deaths as well, what I suspect is the filter is not coping as it is overloaded with fish, the nitrate is now at toxic levels which has lead to your fish getting diseases.

perhaps an appropriate quote - we are not fishkeepers we are water keepers; look after your water and the fish will look after themselves.

for now i would not confine him, he will be more stressed out by this, if you have a spare tank you can put him in then do so, but the breeder boxes are really small.

if other fish being to attack or bully him then you may have no alternative.

the best way we can diagnose is with a picture, is it at all possible tog et one, even from a phone camera or something like that would be better than nothing.

 

[-germ-]

erm....
Out of my depth...
columnaris? is the growth kind of grey?
or even possibly Lymphocistis...
Can you get a pic?
Yes, seperate the fish. Or not.... If theres a chance he will die, and die while you are not there, i'd do it to reduce the risk of whatever it is spreading, then again seperating the fish may just kill it anyway via the stress. Catch 22

 

[TheUnknown]

Following the advise of "AndyGordon" on PFK:

Half a dismantled aquarium later and a tank full of exited fish, it seems that the thing in her mouth has dislodged and i can see all the way in perfectly.

I believe it was a snail egg or something like that as they have all be feasting on them this morning.

Isn't it always the case i could have caught all the fish except her dozens of times over in the time it took to catch the one I wanted. . Who says they have a 3 second memory. .

I am relieved that that is sorted, now onto the water.

I do not have a test kit for ammonia , I will visit my LFS as soon as possible and get one.

EDIT: The silly little begger is back at the eggs again .

 

[Miss Wiggle]

phew glad you've got it. as i'm sure you can imagine this must be really stressful for the fish, he now needs optimum conditions to recuperate in.

next step, remove all the eggs so it can't happen again then do a large (50% minimum) water change to get the nitrate down.

get an ammonia test kit, i'd advise investing the the API Fresh water master Test Kit, it's a set of liquid tests which are much more accurate than test strips, then we can fully assess what's going on with the fish and the tank.

with a nitrate reading that high it either implies

1 - too many fish or an underperforming filter
2 - very high nitrate reading in your tap water
3 - inadequate maintenance

regarding the stocking, a general guideline for how many fish you can have in your tank is 1" of fish per us gallon of water, your tank is roughly 32 gallons, fish you currently have are

2 Apple Snails - these are quite big waste producers, allow 2" each - 4"
4 Guramies - assume they are something like opaline gouramis 5" each, please give us the species and we can tell exactly - 10"
3 Plattys - 6"
5 Zebra Dannios - 5"
6 Corrys - assume a medium sized species at 2", please let us know exactly what cories they are - 12"
5 Tetras - assume a smalish tetra at 1.5" again give species if you can - 7.5"
4 Ram Cichlids - 12"
A few more that I cannot see at the moment - Only small fish. - assume another 3"

so that's nearly 60" of fish just at a rough guess. that's too heavy a stocking for the standard juwel filters, they aren't actually very good. if you upgraded to a good external cannister you should be able to keep all the fish you have

can you test the nitrate of your tap water so we know what you are working with to begin with

can you give us a really full description of your maintenance routine, how you do water changes, how often, how you clean the filter, substrate vaccing etc. working on the assumption that your tank is overstocked compared to what your filter can cope with you need to be doing extra maintenance until you either get rid of some fish or upgrade the filter

 

[-germ-]

Lymphocistis? no...
Columnaris? no...
Snail eggs? yes...

Glad you've got that sorted anyway.
Overstockage=bad
Wiggles advice=good

 

[TheUnknown]

The snail eggs have now been removed.

I will visit my LFS and see if they have the test kits you mentioned.

50% water change? I don't want to upset anything any more.

I was lead to believe that this amount of fish would be OK in this size tank as well as the Jewel filters being good (Although not as good as external ones) (Not by my local fish shop). I guess I learned th hard way to Triple check what people say.

The next step being to go about finding an external filter for sale. When you say "good", I have a feeling it is going to be difficult to find one used? Is there a particular make I should look out for?

I will test the tap water now.

Thanks for all your help

 

[Miss Wiggle]

a 50% water change shouldn't upset the fish, what it will do is vastly improve the quality of the water that they are in. with large water changes just add the water back to the tank slowly so as not to induce a large temp drop.

unfotunately you can't believe everything the lfs's say, ultimately they are there to make money out of you, some shops are good and will only sell you what you need or what is best, however that's unfortunately far from every shop.

you should always do your own research, who'se to say that the man in the lfs is right, no one knows everything, equally nor can you just believe everything that I or anyone else on the forum say's. we are all human and therefore fallible. this is why i like forums, ask a question and you'll get a range of answers, generally people will reach a consensus and you know you have a body of information not just one source to rely on.

IMHO this amount of fish is on the high side of OK, with a good filter it'll be alright, i certainly wouldn't want any more fish in there and i don't think the juwel filter is good enough to cope. just my opinion though, see if anyone else agrees with me. bear in mind i'm working this out on a rough guess without species specific information, if you could tell us exactly which species of fish you have then we can get a much more accurate picture, i would advise doing this before you go out spending your money on a new filter. if you don't know then post some pictures for us and we'll tell you.

check out ebay for 2nd hand filters, always hundreds to choose from, as with anything 2nd hand you have variance on quality, you just have to take a gamble or shell out more for a brand new one. that's for your wallet to decide!

i recommend eheim if you can get one, if not then rena or tetratec are good cheaper alternatives.

 

[TheUnknown]

I forgot to mention earlier, normally every week I use a gravel vacuum on the gravel trying to clean every where i can.
Three times since I have had the tank I have taken all the ornaments and plant out and cleaned the gravel that I cant normally get to using the same vacuum. I usually continue until 25% of the water has been drained out.

I then change the top white part of the filter.

I have tested the tap water and the results where: (Using the 5-1 test strips)

GH: 30
KH: 0
PH: 6
Nitrate: About 20
Nitrite: 0.5

When replacing the water I use tap water and leave it for about 24 hours and then add the "Aqua Safe".

 

[Miss Wiggle]

ok maintenance routine sounds fine for a standard stocking, for the time being i'd recommend doing more like 40% weekly water changes to compensate for the filter not keeping up too well.

just seems like the filter isn't coping, get a decent liquid test kit and confirm the readings asap though

tap waters not awful then, 20ppm nitrates is copeable with, you should expect your readings at the end of a week before your water change to be getting up towards maybe 60ppm which although not ideal should be fine for most community fish. the tap water nitrite shouldn't cause a problem, a mature well functioning filter can easily handle that and sort it out virtually instantly. however with your filter not functioning properly this will be contributing to the high nitrate reading.

with your tap water you've nothing to worry about long term really, once you get your filtration sorted it'll be fine. just be aware if you ever decide to keep particularly delicate fish you may need to invest in something like a RO unit (type of water purifier) to get the water clean enough for the fish.