Unknown fish deaths

[Smithdog90]

Hi can somebody help me with problem with some unions fish deaths. I have recently made a paludarium (picture shown in my profile) and introduced some Chili Raspora about 4 weeks after adding the water. After about a week they started disappearing about every other day and now there is none left after a couple of weeks. There is also a bristlenose catfish and cherry shrimp on there that seem fine. I cannot find any fish corpses in the tank but haven’t seen any sign of them so assuming they must be dead. I have tested my water again today to get the following results:

- ammonia 0.25mg/l
- gh 180mg/l
- kh 120mg/l
- ph 7.5
- No2 0mg/l
- N03 0mg/l

FYI I am new to keeping aquariums so my knowledge isn’t amazing although I have tried to do as much research as possible online and advice from stores etc. looking at the test results I know the water is very high on the ‘hard’ side so I’m presuming this might be the issue I need to sort? Any advice would be much appreciated cheers.

Regards Smithdog.

 

[Back in the fold]

I can‘t say anything about your problem but that thing is cool looking . I like it .

 

[Smithdog90]

Cheers, yeah the top part of the tank is coming along nicely… but the aquarium part not so much unfortunately.

 

[Ichthys]

That ammonia at that pH is deadly to fish. You’ve posted this in the cycling section. Did you cycle the filter?

 

[Lillypad101]

Awesome setup you have there!!!

I have a few tips and questions to get to the bottom of the fish deaths/disappearances.
1. What water conditioner do you use?
2. Do you add anything into the tank apart from water conditioner?
3. Did you measure water parameters while cycling? Ammonia at .25 should be fine, but will become deadly if it gets any higher.
Tip: after cycling a tank, the nitrates should not be at 0, they should be around 5-15.
Tip: make sure ph remains stable, and choose fish that thrive in your harder water.
4. What temperature is the tank?
5. Does the temperature fluctuate or stay stable?
Tip: if you would like to lower the ph level, you can use driftwood (which I think I already see in there) and Indian almond leaves.
6. How do the fish act before they go missing?
7. Do you know how many gallons/liters your tank is?

 

[Lillypad101]

Sorry, I meant the ammonia at .25ppm should be fine… ammonia is extremely deadly though when it gets over .25

 

[Smithdog90]

I cycled the water through a external canister a for 4 weeks prior to putting fish in, but tbh I’ve only started to understand how complex it is getting the water parameters right… if that amount of ammonia at that PH is deadly does this mean the tank is still cycling?

To answer your list in order;
1. Aquariun tap water safe
2. Nothing additionally added
3. No I didn’t, until now I have only just realised how important that was!
4/5. Temperature remains constant between 27-28 deg C.
6. The fish seem to act fine, they seem active and feed in the morning, I make sure to feed very small amounts due to their size.
7. Due to the awkward shape of the aquarium area I have tried to calculate it and it comes in at roughly 10 gal.

Cheers for the inputs.

 

[Ichthys]

I cycled the water through a external canister a for 4 weeks prior to putting fish in, but tbh I’ve only started to understand how complex it is getting the water parameters right… if that amount of ammonia at that PH is deadly does this mean the tank is still cycling?

Either that or the filter isn’t big enough, which it is, so yes. Did you not wait till the cycle had completed before adding the fish?

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

ammonia at .25ppm should be fine…

No. Ammonia should always read 0

 

[Ichthys]

Sorry, I meant the ammonia at .25ppm should be fine… ammonia is extremely deadly though when it gets over .25

.25 in alkaline water is burning fish. It’s not fine at all.

 

[Smithdog90]

I think the filter spec is upto 20 gal tank so should be plenty for this one. When I first started reading up on cycling the tank one article I read was saying it would take 2-4 weeks for the bacteria to flourish in the filter then it would be ok to start adding fish, which is basically what I did.

Now I’ve found out I should of tested before putting them in to check the parameters properly. Just so I have a good understanding, when the tank is sufficient in bacteria that consume the ammonia, which then produce the nitrates the plants will absorb… will this mean the ammonia levels will then be around zero, with small amounts of nitrates in the water?

 

[Smithdog90]

I have added almond leaves and alder cones to try and reduce the ph, is this a suitable method?

 

[Byron]

I have added almond leaves and alder cones to try and reduce the ph, is this a suitable method?

Maybe or maybe not. The pH is connected very closely to the GH and KH (Alkalinity). The GH is given as 180 ppm, the KH at 120 ppm [mg/l is equal to ppm whihc is one unit the hobby uses, the other is degrees German or dH which here would be GH 10 dH and KH 7 dKH]. These values are high enough that they will buffer the pH to prevent fluctuations. That means your leaves and cones will probably have no effect on pH. This is better under the circumstances, since water changes would cause significant fluctuation every time, and a steady pH is better. If you want to lower the pH, you need to lower the GH and KH all together. Not suggesting you should, just noting the issue.

How did you cycle the water, if at all?

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

There has to be a source of ammonia in the water first for the bacteria to grow. This first colony of bacteria 'eat' the ammonia and produce nitrite which a different colony of bacteria will grow and 'eat'. The byproduct is nitrate which doesn't get 'eaten' but can be utilised by plants to some degree. Ammonia and nitrite are extremely toxic to fish, nitrate less so but still toxic in high amounts which is why its crucial to do water changes on a weekly basis to dilute it and keep it at a safe level. Most of us like to do 50% a week.

Your tank hasn't even begun cycling yet which is why your test is reading 0 for Nitrite. You're now doing a 'fish in' cycle which can be tricky but doable. You're now forced to do big daily water changes until your tests read 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite

 

[Ichthys]

[written before I saw the two posts above].

You need to add ammonia to cycle a filter. Just leaving it for four weeks gets you no nearer to being ready for fish than you were on day 1. Ammonia eating bacteria multiply and convert the ammonia to nitrite, then nitrite eating bacteria multiply and convert that to nitrate. Nitrate builds up over time, which is one of the reasons we have to do water changes, unless you have enough plants to consume it.

The filter/tank is cycled when you can add ammonia and have zero ammonia and nitrite within a day. Ammonia is produced by fish as a trickle rather than a big dose, so you’ll have enough bacteria for ammonia and nitrite to always be zero.

Botanicals need to use up most of the KH before the water will soften. KH reacts with the tannins produced.