Two Angels In One Tank?!?!?!

[Tommy Gunnz]

So, lately I have been slowly but surely moving my tank into the direction of becoming a reef tank. It is a 90 gallon bowfront tank and is pretty well established and easy to keep the water parameters in good ranges. I also have a lot of rock, about 150 pounds, with good spacing and hiding places.

About two weeks ago I bought a bicolored angel for this tank since I really like how they look and will be condusive to my planned community or relatively non-aggressive reef tank. Everything worked out fine and this fish is doing great in my tank today.

However, I went to an LFS because I had gotten some good gift certificates for my birthday. I went in search of two things, a clean up crew and to get some input on a bright red fish that may work out in my tank. The LFS owner, who I really trust in this case, told me that a Flame Angel would be great and he had one on sale (they are remodeling the SW part of the store, so he is trying to get rid of some things to do so). I told him I already have one angel in the tank and he told me that if it was going to be ok to put more than one angel in a tank, it would be best to do it with a bicolored and a flame angel.

So, I am wondering if you guys have any input or opinions on this advice? I have the flame angel on hold at the store until I can research more into this. I am not totally against just trading in the bicolored for the flame, since blue and yellow fish are easy to come by, but red is limited as far as fish who will be ok in a reef tank (as far as I can tell anyways). So, do you think that this is worth a shot or should I stick to just one angel no matter what? Also, if this is a bad idea, and totally just out of curiousity, what would happen? I mean can they kill each other or is it more of a stress thing that can lead to bigger problems later on?

Thanks for any help you can give me!
TG

 

[SkiFletch]

In a 90? Go for it . You have two things working for you in this case. #1, your tank is very large with plenty of hiding and escape spots for the two angels to stake territory. #2, flame and bi-colors are very opposing color morphs of angel and won't be very interested in each other

There is one problem for "later on". Some dwarf angels (of which bi-color and flame are both dwarf) CAN develop a taste for certain acropora, pocillipora, stylophora, or other SPS corals. My flame angel would nip at any stylo or poci that I put in my tank. A friend of mine in my club has a flame that lives in a completely SPS tank and it never touches them.... Some angelfish just get curious and that curiousity stresses corals. If you can tolerate being somewhat limited on your SPS choices then go nuts

Edit just to clarify, I've never heard of a flame nipping at LPS or Softies. Doesn't mean they'd never do it, but they dont seem pre-disposed to harming those species, only SPS

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

Thanks for the reply. I have called the LFS at which the Flame Angel is being held for me and will pick it up in about a week. Ironically, another LFS I like to deal with called me today and told me that they have the one other fish on my "most wanted" list for my tank...a Foxface Lo. So, IF I can safely stock both the flame angel as well as the Foxface Lo, with my bicolored angel, I would have all of the three 'larger' fish that I want in my tank with only my school of Green Chromis to add later on.

My question is...Will the two angels and the Foxface be ok together in the same tank? I know that the foxface does have a somewhat similar body type to the angelfish, especially the bicolored angel, but I would think that they could tell the differences between them or is this another potential problem?


I am also looking at getting a Fire Red Cleaner Shrimp. My bicolored angelfish has been 'posing' for my two green chromis as well as two hermit crabs (which I no longer have since they were too big) and so I looked into getting a couple neon gobies, but have had no luck finding any so far. So, I thought that maybe this shrimp would help me out a bit with the bicolored angel's obvious desire to be cleaned. Does anyone have ideas or opinions about these shrimp? Would there be any reason NOT to get the shrimp?


My plan for this tank is to, once completely stocked and the water parameters are stable again (so far I havent seen any problems, but I am ot taking the risk), to add some low light corals such as mushroom and maybe a plate coral (have not researched the plate coral quite yet). My lighting right now will be fine for these corals and will allow me to gain more experience with coral before I get into anything more demanding. I am simply looking to add some color to the tank and so far I have gotten advice as to my plan being ok. Any ideas or thoughts about this?

 

[SkiFletch]

Foxfaces generally only quarrel with yellow tangs. They usually dont mess with bi-colors and ignore flame angels completely IME. But a foxface + yellow tang combo usually ends up with a dead tang . Also very very occasionally a foxface will develop a taste for zooanthids or acanthestrea corals. Its very rare among the common foxface lo, but has been reported. So if you do add acans or zoos, just keep an eye on that foxface

Blood shrimp are great cleaners. Sometimes they exhibit less "cleaning" behavior than skunk cleaners, but they are more docile and less likely to trample corals than skunks. If I were to have a cleaner shrimp, it would be a fire red (aka blood) shrimp, but I'd probably get 2-3 of them since they are social critters and will be seen more often in a small group than solo.

If I may make a suggestion regarding mushrooms, Make sure you get a furry or bumpy ricordea type. Try to avoid the smooth common mushrooms (especially green stripe mushrooms). Most of the common smooth ones grow like weeds, espeially the green stripe. They've completely taken over one portion of my tank and I'm gonna have to start killing off some of them

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

Thanks again Ski!

I have heard that same advice a couple of times about the furry or hairy mushroom corals so that just adds to my reasoning for going with those types. However, I am not really sure if having one coral grow fast and all over the place would be all that bad for my tank since I would sort of like to have a lot of color and green is one that I am sort of looking to add to my tank. What exactly could be bad about a coral that 'takes over a tank' as you say these green stripe mushrooms can do? I guess I can see the point about a tank in which a person wants to have multiple types of corals, but to be honest, I have poured quite a bit of time and money into this tank already and so even if it was just one type of mushroom growing, I could most likely start to save up some money for upgrades in the future. So, if you could please elaborate on the pros and cons of having a green stripe mushroom coral in the tank, I would appreciate it.

I was just talking to my wife (who I must pass most of my decisions in front of before I act upon them, as you probrably can understand) and I think that I have decided to get the Foxface tomorrow along with one fire shrimp (that is all they have, but I will most likley order a couple more for later on) and see if I cannot try to trade in the Bicolored angel. From everything I have read, even though the foxface may end up to be the largest fish in the tank (if I kept it with the flame and bicolored), it could easily become the one most picked on and stressed. I would like to avoid this for the obvious reasons as well as to help ensure that the Flame and Foxface are more apt to stay out and about more often. Right now my bicolored angel is much more reclusive during the day when I have all the lights on over the tank, but it becomes active when only the blue actynic lights are on and I would assume when the tank is dark as well. This is ok and I understand it, but right now for instance, it is out (only the blue actynic lights are on) but chasing every fish in the tank to include a six line wrasse and the damsels.

Also, do you think that adding more damsels to the two that I already have will be a problem? I did introduce 5 of them all at one time but a puffer I had before (at least I think it was him) took out three of them. I havent read anything very spacific about adding more damsels but I am leery because they may have already established themselves and adding more will create problems with territories and the like. Most every source I have read about them just state that they are nice and non-aggressive but the two I have seem to have a tight hold on at least the upper corner on one side of my tank.

Again, thanks for your help so far. I am sure I will have a lot more questions later on as well and I appreciate you taking the time to look them over and helping me make good decisions here. There are just so many different things to think about with SW fish compared to FW fish. At least to me, FW fish seem to be easy to figure out and stock accordingly.

 

[SkiFletch]

Oh well, why are green stripe mushrooms bad you ask? Best way I can describe is with a picture. A green stripe mushroom did this to my favites brain coral when it landed next to it and started stinging it. The affliction you see is whats known as "brown jelly" and is basically the coral's inflamatory immune response to the sting of the mushroom. Usually tissue claimed by brown jelly dies and this particular specemin needed to be fragged in order to save it. It currently lives, albeit nearly 1/3rd its former grand size:

Before (note proximity of green stripes)

Iflamation response to mushroom sting

After fragging

As you can see, green stripe mushrooms have a decent sting. Favites brain corals are one of the weakest corals (sting wise) so its not surprising that the mushroom overpowered it. But when you have a coral that grows wicked fast and has the potential to sting neighbors that you wish to keep, sometimes you wish you didn't have that coral grow so fast

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

Ski, once again, thanks. That makes a lot more sense to me. Since I am only in the planning stages of getting my tank turned into a reef set up, I havent researched all of the coral types yet to understand if they are aggressive or what other traits I have to consider. I was looking at picture of a mushroom coral that was just huge...I believe it was a fuzzy mushroom coral and I would really like to get one of these to place somewhere in the center of my tank, if possible. My plan from there is to put smaller mushroom corals of varying colors on either side of the big one.

Currently my lighting system offers about 3 watts per gallon. However, the tank is four feet wide and about three feet 'tall' and so I am thinking that I may be able to keep some corals that need a bit more light near the top of the rockwork, closer to the lights. Does this make as much sense to you as it does me? I am not looking to keep anything too difficult, but something that will add color and interest. Would you have any suggestions as to what I might want to look into?

 

[SkiFletch]

Not only does that make sense, but you'll HAVE to keep low-light corals at the bottom of 3' of water. 3' is a lot of depth and depth kills light more than anything else. I'd stick to only really really hardy species on the bottom. Think ricordea, xenia, sacrophyton (leather), and MAYBE palythoas (prefferably giant palys). I wouldnt even try zooanthids, or any LPS coral. I'd try and keep any LPS shallower than 24". You could get away with perhaps some brain or favites brain a little lower than 24" but not too much or the color will suffer greatly as it responds by breeding more zooxanthellae.