Trying To Get My Angel's To Pair Off!

[kribensis12]

Hey,
I have had a angelfish for around 2 month's and here is a pic:

I was reacently given some christmas money early, and decided i was going to try to get him/her a mate. I think he/her will make a excellent breeder, as i have never seen such a fine Marbled Angelfish. So, yeseterday night i bought 2 Marbeld Angelfish from petsmart. Now many of you will probably gasp saying: Why did he go there?" I really had no choice, i was given a $20 gift card( E 10), and i wanted nothing else but a few more angel's. So then i went to superpet's( fav lfs) and looked at their angel's. They have been getting some in from a wonderful breeder who must know what he's doing! I looked around, and i saw three adult angel's in there. 1 albino, and 2 wild-type. They were stunnig, specially the wild-type ones, i swear they had to be altum's! But i fell in love with the albino. They fed them some fish food and the thing near jumped out of the water for it! Alway's a good sign! So, they bagged it, and i walked away very happy. So, i moved my original angelfish in the 20g flat hex, with some very small convict's( wil probably become food!). I then after a 20 min aclimation, took the fish out of the bag and realised them into the new tank! I feed 2 hours later and everyone was hungry! Another good sign. I am concerd about 1 angel though. One of the petsmart angel's dosent swim much, just sit's on the bottom and only swim's to get food. What could be wrong? Mind you he didnt look to hot when i got him( but i fell in love with his/her stunning coloration!). He/she mostly keep's it's fins against his body, not spread out with vigor. Why? I had to move the Albino Angel this morning as it was too healthy ( never heard that before, have you?!) he( assuming, as it has a nice forehead!) was scaring the crap and not being nice to the other's( another reason why i think it could be a male). So later, i saw the my original had become some-what( not really aggressive)< so i move him/her to the tank with the albino a few hours ago. He/ she has a small amount of damage done to his fin's, but the other angel is pretty much leaving him/her alone. Is there likely to be a problem?What do you think the chances are of my angel's pairing off? Please respond!
Krib

 

[shroob]

If I understand you right, you have 1 orignial angel fish, you got 2 from petsmart (or similar) and 1 from a LFS..making 4 angels right?

To get them to pair off, I would put them all in the same tank, preferably with no other fish and let the fish choose their own partner, may take some time but it will be worth it as the bond will be stronger. With 4 fish you have a pretty good chance you have got atleast 1 male/female, but many people recommend getting 6, all depends on if you can afford it or think its worth getting 2 more.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: with the not so good angel, it could just be stress from moving etc, but keep an eye on it, clamped fins is not a good sign.

 

[kribensis12]

Yes, i had 1 ang el to start off with, then i got 2 angel's from petsmart, adn 1 from my lfs. I again had to move the albino( i acclimated, dont worry) to my spare 10 gallon( already cycled) as it was stilll being mean! Do you think that it could be a male then? The not so good angel, looks better today. I woke up to find it swimming, not much, but swimming no the less! The other petsmart angel, is smaller, and is pretty fat. Do you think it couild be bloat? Or just baby fat( arent most cichlid fry fat when young?). He is around 4 inches tall, so he isnt a monster or anytihng, but still good sized! Since 2 of my angel's are either having issues, or just to small, do you think i should leave those 2 together ( in the 20g), and leave the bigger angel in the 10, and the original in the 30? I just want every one to have a fair chance, and dont want to have dead angel's, as superpet's angel defiantely has the upper hand. Just a comparison on where people get their angel's. The original angel is from super pet's, and so is the albino, they ar ethe bigger, stronger healthier ones. So abviously, petsmart is doing something wrong. MIf you are thinking on getting a angel, your best bet is a lfs, not petsmart, petco, or pets@home.

 

[kribensis12]

Anyone else?

 

[Tolak]

I've put younger angels in with more mature ones many times, usually in a 55 gallon or larger tank. Rearrange the 30 gallon, add the smaller non-aggressive angels, then add both larger angels once the smaller ones settle in. The more angels the better in these situations, aggression gets spread, much like with African cichlids. Potential breeders need 5 gallons per fish, so you could put up to 6 angels in the 30 gallon if you are looking for pairs. Four angels gives you an 87.5% chance of a pair, 6 angels bumps it up to a 96.9% chance.

The one that was acting a bit off should stay in the tank it is in now for at least a week, try dimming the tank lights, this helps reduce stress. I would go easy on the feeding as well, stress can contribute to constipation & bloat.

In the mean time, buy or build a divider for the 30 gallon. Aggression is not a predominantly male/female thing with angels, I've had some nasty females. Once in a while you will hit on some nice fish from a corporate owned shop, some, like Petland, are franchises and do buy from local breeders, I've sold Petland plenty of angels.

 

[kribensis12]

Thank's Tolak, i have been anticapting your reply! Is petland just like petsmart? Or petco? Also, how would i go about making a divder? I dont think i will re-arrange the tank, or move fish until later, as they are all very stressed. So, do you tihnk the smallest angel is having issues wiht bloat? The 30g also has:
2 mollies
5 tetra's
2 danio's
1 blood parrot( baby, will be re-homed)
1 platy
a few baby convict's

 

[Tolak]

Petland is a franchise, the owner purchases the franchise from the corporation, and has the right to use their name and such, as well as getting in on bulk buys through the corporation. The owner is often the manager, or hires a manager for larger or multiple locations. The owner has final say on what is sold for what price, and what is purchased form where. There is a considerable investment involved on the part of the owner, 200K-400K+, depending on the size & location of the franchise. There is also a much greater return for the owner.

With a corporate owned shop the corporation decides who is the store manager, what the sell and for what price, and what they buy & from whom. The only return for the store manager is a paycheck & benefits.

Here’s a link on how to make a divider for larger cichlids, for angels I just cut the eggcrate a little larger & wedge it in; http/www.gcca.net/howto/tank_divider.htm

The angel may have a little bloat, or it may be a little pudgy. I’ve seen that pudginees in fry, they grow out just fine, as do their non-pudgy siblings. Not knowing how they were fed I would err on the side of caution & go easy with the feeding, make sure to include some frozen brine shrimp, as the roughage aids digestion.

I would keep an eye out for nipping with some of those fish, beyond that they should work out together.

 

[kribensis12]

I am feeding frozen brine Shrimp. I could move the other fish instead of making a divider, as it sounds like too much of a hassle( im so lazy, plus i dont have 6 dollar's, or a hack saw, just a regualr saw!). Thank's tolak, you always know how to help when it comes to angel's!

 

[kribensis12]

As advised from tolak, last night, i went to petsamrt a hour ago adn took back the 2 angel's as tehyw ere having issues. The albino one is still doing good in the 10g. At petsmart they had a new batch of baby angel's. I usually dont like to buy from there, but tey looked extrmely healthy and nearly jumped out of the water when fed so i picked up 3. I got 2 dalmation's, an d 1 wild looking angel. They are doing good so far. How long does it take them to reach sexualy maturity? The are over a inch tall. I am feeding them frozen brine shrimp.

 

[kribensis12]

Im so upset!!!!!!!!!!!! I was about to leave for church this morning, when i noticed that i forgot to feed my fish. I check my 30g tank and what do i find? A dead angelfish! Mos tpeople will prob say, it was just 1 angelfish. Bu this was the first angel, i have ever kept for more than a month! Usually they die. He didnt eat yesterday, so iwasnt too worried, but for him to die just like that is weird. I also had a red platy die this morning. I tested my water and here are the result's:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 35
Ph: 7.8
Gh and Kh: to high to detect.

What do you think killed him and the platy? The baby angels are doing well and eating like little monster's!!!!! My albino angel is also doing well. It just dosent make sense! Please help!

 

[kribensis12]

I picked up another baby angel for the 20g. So that make's 4 babies. So i have a 65% chance of a pair? They are all doing good, and eating like mice( hence, mice eat alot!).

 

[Tolak]

Number of fish % chance of NO pairs Chances of at least ONE pair
1 100.0 0.0
2 50.0 50.0
3 25.0 75.0
4 12.5 87.5
5 6.3 93.8
6 3.1 96.9
7 1.6 98.4
8 0.8 99.2

 

[kribensis12]

Thank's Tolak!!! They are still doing fine! What is the pairing off size?

 

[Tolak]

It has more to do with age than size. I've had blacks, which tend to grow a little slower, pair off & have a viable spawn at half dollar body size. I've had silers, which tend to grow a little faster, be larger than dollar body size at 8 months, and still show no signs of pairing.

On the average they begin to show pairing behavior at around 9 months. Dime body size are 7-10 weeks old for me, nickel are about 10-14 weeks, quarter are 4-5 months or so, halfs are 6-7 months. Remember this is an average, I have some dimes out of each batch after 6 weeks, runts won't be half dollar size for a year.

 

[kribensis12]

Mine are are a little bigger than a quarter, so inm a few month;s then!! Thank's Tolak. I will post pic's after christmas( at least, i will try!)