Toxic Tank? Upgrading- Dwarf Frogs With Betta In Ten Gallon?

[trianglekitty]

Right now my betta is in a five gallon planted tank. The water evaporates way too quickly in this tank, and the water parameters are harder to keep stable.

I'm going to upgrade him to a ten gallon. Any suggestions for possible tank mates (keeping in mind I keep the water at 80 degrees for him?) Maybe an apple snail? He shared a tank with one before without issue. Maybe a little cory cat group? Or should I maybe get a divider and do two males?

 

[bettanoob]

mabe stick a lid on it or a drip tray to keept he moisture in more?
also corys do well with betta as they ignore the bullying (if any) there to big and soft to bother or be bothered

 

[trianglekitty]

mabe stick a lid on it or a drip tray to keept he moisture in more?
also corys do well with betta as they ignore the bullying (if any) there to big and soft to bother or be bothered

That's something else wrong with the tank - the levels are right for ammonia and everything, but after over six months I still have brown sludge everywhere and all my plants keep dying. I had various vals and some dwarf grass, and it all rotted and died. It's really weird...the betta himself seems fine. At this point I just want to ditch the tank and see if I have less problems with a bigger one. My tank downstairs (20 gallon community) has never had anything similar.

I don't think this betta will have a go at anyone...he's a big old softy and has never once flared. I was maybe thinking two dwarf frogs? I love corys, but I do have them in the other tank and would like something different.

 

[LadyDragon]

You may want to do a nano-refugium...
http/theaquariumkits.info/detail/p_B005VFLAG2/Top-deal-HB-210--Finnex-External-HOB-Refugium---Breeder-Box--Air-Pump-onsale.html
I started mine as kind of an experiment and quickly got some more sophisticated ones for all my tanks!
http/www.thereeftank.com/forums/f20/fs-midnight-sun-large-hob-refugium-131986.html

Most of people use them for Saltwater systems, but it works well with Freshwater as well.
Because I live near the beach I have a sand bed and dried coral rock rubble in mine (the dried coral because it's poreus and gives more surface area for beneficial bacteria to colonize) I also put Java moss to suck the nitrates out of the water, and a Japanese trap door snail to munch the Alge (Alge growing in the refugium sucks the nutrients out of the water and actually PREVENTS it from growing in the main tank!) then I added a culture of Daphnia (to eat the bacteria), Scuds (to eat the detritus) and FW shrimp... The coolest thing is that NOT ONLY do the little ecosystem of "cleaning crew" help stabilize the water, but small numbers of them find their way back into the main tank and provide live food for the fish! (also they encourage the fish to hunt for them, keeping them active and healthy instead of lazy and bored) I got the idea from the sea horse and Mandarin fish people who use them to keep a steady supply of live food for the fish to hunt.

It's been the coolest and most productive little experiment, my fry have grown faster, my tanks water peramaters maintain better and last longer, and the little colonies in the refugiums are just as fun to watch as the main tanks! Basically win-win it's two tanks in one and each helps the other.

 

[trianglekitty]

You may want to do a nano-refugium...
http/theaquariumkits.info/detail/p_B005VFLAG2/Top-deal-HB-210--Finnex-External-HOB-Refugium---Breeder-Box--Air-Pump-onsale.html
I started mine as kind of an experiment and quickly got some more sophisticated ones for all my tanks!
http/www.thereeftank.com/forums/f20/fs-midnight-sun-large-hob-refugium-131986.html

Most of people use them for Saltwater systems, but it works well with Freshwater as well.
Because I live near the beach I have a sand bed and dried coral rock rubble in mine (the dried coral because it's poreus and gives more surface area for beneficial bacteria to colonize) I also put Java moss to suck the nitrates out of the water, and a Japanese trap door snail to munch the Alge (Alge growing in the refugium sucks the nutrients out of the water and actually PREVENTS it from growing in the main tank!) then I added a culture of Daphnia (to eat the bacteria), Scuds (to eat the detritus) and FW shrimp... The coolest thing is that NOT ONLY do the little ecosystem of "cleaning crew" help stabilize the water, but small numbers of them find their way back into the main tank and provide live food for the fish! (also they encourage the fish to hunt for them, keeping them active and healthy instead of lazy and bored) I got the idea from the sea horse and Mandarin fish people who use them to keep a steady supply of live food for the fish to hunt.

It's been the coolest and most productive little experiment, my fry have grown faster, my tanks water peramaters maintain better and last longer, and the little colonies in the refugiums are just as fun to watch as the main tanks! Basically win-win it's two tanks in one and each helps the other.

Okay, this looks awesome and I can't wait to set mine up. I have shrimp in my main tank and love to watch them even more than the fish, so even if there weren't benefits to it I'd still probably want one. Some questions though...

What kind of FW shrimp do you have, and how many? Can you suggest a place to order scuds? And a somewhat silly question...I have live plants in the main tank that I don't fertilize because they grow well on just the fish waste. With the mini tank helping to remove debris and waste, will my plants still get enough nutrients?

 

[trianglekitty]

Sorry, more questions as I research more...

It seems like you switched to the one that hangs over the side, yes? Did you have any trouble fitting it on? My tanks have hoods, so I'm not sure if it would go under the hood and raise it up, or if the gap is wide enough to fit over.

If you have the one that hangs over, how are the colonies making it back into the main tank? I would think that would be the advantage of the in-tank version.

Do you have a separate light for it, and if so, could you share what kind?

 

[LadyDragon]

I got my first daphnia off of eBay, then I discovered Aquabid! I got my first FW Shrimp (2 blues) as extras with my first Scud culture (which were Hyaella) then after a randomn net search I ended up getting different "FW plankton" from here: http/www.aquaculturestore.com/fwinverts.html

There are a few different kinds of scuds (hyaella are about half the size of Gammarus) I ended up getting both! I also got Daphnia, and an assortment of Fairy Shrimp, seed shrimp, and Triops from here http/www.arizonafairyshrimp.com/eggs.html

The Triops are interesting in the Betta tanks btw!

The Fairy Shrimp (Basically FW brine shrimp) are also quite interesting, I'd do them instead of mosquito larva if the latter was not SO abundant and convenient for me (I get loads out of my horse water trough when I clean those during weekly chores) my refugiums are these fascinating little diversified microcosms.

My FW shrimp populations are based on the size of the refugium. I have blue shrimp and blue tiger shrimp ( the second from EBay) the blue tigers are in my big tank's refugium -started with 5 but there are MORE than that now! And the blues from that Aquabid scud culture have also multiplied. I'd say in my small one there are 4 or 5 (and they find their way to the main tank to become fish lunch with some regularity... )

About plants, I'm honestly not sure. I know I had trouble keeping my Java moss alive till it moved into. The refugiums... Now it's taking off. I also have just got Elodia which seems to be staying healthy (but I understand it's hard to kill) and was thinking of adding Water wisteria since the plants are staying healthy thus far...but plants aren't my thing. I got mine mostly because I was reading about benefits the plants provide for fish and fry

 

[LadyDragon]

I have Versi-tops so the backs are customizable (you just cut the rubbery section in the back for filters)
I only have worked with the HOB (hang on back) style, the SW aquariasts i got the idea from mentioned the HOB provides better live food transfer, the "under cabinet" variety use a pump to return the water to the main tank, and that chews up the live organisms returning to the main tank. With the HOB style, gravity causes the water to return to the tank... And the organisms returning to the main tank just pass through the return tube.

My nano refugium from Finnex, it has a little mini water fall system as it's outlet... The air pump draws water out of the main tank, and it returns to the tank from the other side just like a HOB filter! It's so beautifully simple.

My Refugiums have separate mini LCD lights.

 

[trianglekitty]

I have Versi-tops so the backs are customizable (you just cut the rubbery section in the back for filters)
I only have worked with the HOB (hang on back) style, the SW aquariasts i got the idea from mentioned the HOB provides better live food transfer, the "under cabinet" variety use a pump to return the water to the main tank, and that chews up the live organisms returning to the main tank. With the HOB style, gravity causes the water to return to the tank... And the organisms returning to the main tank just pass through the return tube.

My nano refugium from Finnex, it has a little mini water fall system as it's outlet... The air pump draws water out of the main tank, and it returns to the tank from the other side just like a HOB filter! It's so beautifully simple.

My Refugiums have separate mini LCD lights.

My hood has breakouts for the filters, but I would actually need to hang it either on the side or back- the back of the tank is too close to the wall. I'm going to start with one for my betta tank, so I need to make sure there's no gap big enough for him to jump out through. I'm pretty good at jury-rigging through, so I'm sure I can work something out.

Thank you so much for all the great information- I love this idea and can't wait to get started! I'm researching as best I can, but so many sites are about either saltwater or under the tank and larger versions. You've definitely given me enough to get started, but are there any sites or resources you found particularly helpful or easy to translate for the freshwater HOB style?

Like I said, even if it didn't help the tank I'd still want to try it just for the critters...the fact that it can help keep my tank healthier is just a fantastic bonus!

 

[LadyDragon]

http/www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/67397-freshwater-refugium.html
This had an interesting discussion, but I was also frustrated by how little info there was out there on the subject. Eventually I figured I'd just try it and see what happened, I kind of had a base idea of what to do in order to achieve what I wanted (deep sand bed, java moss, scuds, etc) once I had an idea how to set it up, what it SHOULD do, and then figured that I'd see how it went, I'd figure the rest of it out.

So far it's been the coolest little adventure! So successful, im really surprised it's not a more popular thing... It just seems like such a perfect addition to the hobby.

There is also a great product review on YouTube, the guy talks too much, and it is Saltwater oriented, but easy enough to port over to Fresh if you just choose your components with that in mind.

YouTube refugium product review:
http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=esbc5j97h1U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[trianglekitty]

http/www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/67397-freshwater-refugium.html
This had an interesting discussion, but I was also frustrated by how little info there was out there on the subject. Eventually I figured I'd just try it and see what happened, I kind of had a base idea of what to do in order to achieve what I wanted (deep sand bed, java moss, scuds, etc) once I had an idea how to set it up, what it SHOULD do, and then figured that I'd see how it went, I'd figure the rest of it out.

So far it's been the coolest little adventure! So successful, im really surprised it's not a more popular thing... It just seems like such a perfect addition to the hobby.

There is also a great product review on YouTube, the guy talks too much, and it is Saltwater oriented, but easy enough to port over to Fresh if you just choose your components with that in mind.

YouTube refugium product review:
http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=esbc5j97h1U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Okay, one more question- I've ordered the HOB version you linked to for my 10 gallon, but for later on- do you use all the same size no matter what size your main tank is, or do you use different ones depending on the size of the tank?

 

[LadyDragon]

I have different sizes on my different sized tanks:
My 10g has the small finnex one that I linked, my 30g long has a medium CPR model, and my 55g has the big CPR model.

I have been thinking of switching the Finnex mini to a 5g and getting a small CPR one for the 10, since it's detementions would work out. Just because I'm in maternity world with fry and expectant fry coming out of my ears lol it may be time for a new small tank. We will see how it goes... Fish are definitely an addiction!

 

[trianglekitty]

I have different sizes on my different sized tanks:
My 10g has the small finnex one that I linked, my 30g long has a medium CPR model, and my 55g has the big CPR model.

I have been thinking of switching the Finnex mini to a 5g and getting a small CPR one for the 10, since it's detementions would work out. Just because I'm in maternity world with fry and expectant fry coming out of my ears lol it may be time for a new small tank. We will see how it goes... Fish are definitely an addiction!

Tell me about it- I started with just a little 5 gallon for a rescued fish from work- I came back after being out for almost a year to find this poor little dwarf gourami in a tank that hadn't been cleaned in probably over 6 months. The water was BLACK- you could barely see the fish. So I confiscated him, but I had no intention of getting other fish...fast forward a year later and I'm upgrading the twenty gallon in the living room to a 50 gallon and I just upgraded my betta to a 10 gallon. Now I'm got this project and I'm thinking of getting a dwarf puffer tank.

The girl at the LFS even warned me how addictive it is and how it snowballs out of control, and of course I scoffed!

 

[LadyDragon]

Oh man, don't I know it!
I started with koi, and then 2 deformed goldfish (celestial pearlscales) i rescued from a LFS. Then the Cory cat... Then the SCHOOL of Corys because I researched AFTER I bought it, and discovered they are social... And now there are fish everywhere!