thoughts on the lower end of the temperature's scale, on gouramis???

[Magnum Man]

so I've had a Kissing Gourami ( Helostoma temminckii ) for several years in my Hillstream tank... the temperature of the tank, is at or just below the low temps recommended on line, yet the fish has been thriving, and is less aggressive than their on line reputation... I've typically found fish more aggressive as the heat goes up... I'm wanting to try a pearl gourami in my cool bitterling tank... I'm wondering if the results will be the same??? and how low is too low??? both of these tanks are just over 70 degrees F., the tanks have heaters, so those temps are consistent, no dropping below 71 - 72 degrees... if it doesn't work out, Looks like I'll have to try a paradise fish, as those are listed at lower temps... thoughts???

 

[GaryE]

Thoughts? They're good, but may call for facts too. T. leeri, the pearl gourami, is straight up tropical, with a low range of 24c. Kissers have a low of 22, so you're a lot closer. But the low is an extreme, just as the high is, and it's not an ideal range.

Lower temperatures can slow fish down, slow growth and dial down aggression, which is convenient for us. It can come from the fish having digestive issues and over-all lack of energy and health though. An unwell fish is probably not going to fight, breed or grow quickly. It may not die, but it isn't going to thrive.

Is it right to do that? It's a call we all have to make for ourselves, hopefully with the welfare of the fish in mind.

Macropodus, the paradise group, can be sub tropical or temperate. Some species thrive right up to where ice forms on the water (they're air breathers and would drown under ice) . The standard hobby paradise isn't that extreme, but it does fine down to about 10 degrees celsius.

 

[Magnum Man]

my temminckii, is very active, constantly eating... so I would use the word "thriving" at least as well as a single fish can thrive... several years ago, "they" started as a group of 3, which battled down to a single pretty rapidly... he / she / it, seems to have been thriving as a single in this tank for multiple years...

if it doesn't look like the pearl is happy in it's cooler tank, as long as I catch that in time, I'll move it to a warmer tank... I have notifications for a couple paradise fish, not in stock, and that may have to wait until spring, with the colder than normal weather lately... but I suspect a paradise fish is a safer bet for winter shipping...

 

[Back in the fold]

Gourami’s and Betta’s need it warm in my opinion . I have always kept them at 80 to 82 . Their colors fade and they get listless in cool water . Warm them up and they love it .

 

[FranciscoB]

Leerí (pearl gourami) is among the least aggressive gouramis. Is that not your experience?

 

[AJ356]

I think you are very thoughtful with everything you do with your set ups. However, I do think when people use the term my fish are "thriving", they do try to evidence this, but I suspect it's also a bit of self justification to convince themselves they are doing the right thing. I would stick to keeping tropical fish in tropical temperatures and cold water fish in coldwater temperatures. I know that's really vague and open to scrutiny as to what counts as tropical and what counts as cold etc.

 

[GaryE]

A couple of comments - leeri can be very aggressive if you buy two and get males, then put them in a small tank. I've seen that discussion a few times.

Secondly, like people, fish get one life. So if we keep them as pets, we should do our best to respect that, and do our best by the fish. We have to adapt to the needs of the fish, and they shouldn't have to adapt to ours. We have the option of not buying a species we can't handle properly.

If we buy it, there's a huge body of research on gouramis, and the info is there and easy to access. Why subject the fish to needless stress when we know how to create a good tank for it?

So personally, I'd keep my gouramis at their natural temperature ranges, in tanks designed for them. My fishroom is a bit cool for Asian gouramis, and I only have one African species now, in a tank at the temperature of their habitat. I won't go below that natural range.

 

[Magnum Man]

apparently I'm battling AI...

I can put the pearl gourami in a different tank, and have been looking at paradise fish, with conflicting results...
one source says 75 - 82 F. for a

Macropodus opercularis​

and another source say's... they prefer cooler, non-tropical temperatures around 60-74°F.

I'll continue to dig...

 

[gwand]

I have read the same conflicting information. I have my Paradise fish in a 77F tank. My tanks are all set for 77 degrees or higher.

 

[GaryE]

My experience says they are able to survive at 10, live better at 18, become more active at 22 and breed at 25 and up. Unlike straight up tropical fish, they face seasonal changes.

In high summer in eastern Canada, I had a pond dotted with bubble nests. At the end of the season in October, we were still (desperately) pulling hundreds of the young opercularis hatched from those nests when the water hurt your knuckles. They were healthy and in good colour.

From Fishbase, a researched scientific site, we get the range: Asia: China, from Yangtze basin to the south, on Hainan Island, in Taiwan, north Viet Nam; introduced to the tropical and subtropical world

And we get : Environment: milieu / climate zone / depth range / distribution range Ecology
Freshwater; brackish; pelagic; pH range: 6.0 - 8.0; dH range: 5 - 19. Tropical; 16°C - 26°C (Ref. 1672); 30°N - 20°N, 102°E - 122°E

Macropodus opercularis summary page

www.fishbase.us

Their productive breeding makes keeping them at the warmer end of their range a potential problem. I had so many of these fish by the time I stopped keeping them it was a serious strain on my resources.

 

[Aquaria Pro Aquatics]

I have had a goldie (Trichopodus trichopterus), which also comes from Southeast Asia, in a tank for years and years with just an auto heater, which went out once and temps dropped to around 68 degrees, and he made it just fine, but I never attempted leaving him at that temp. He started out in an aggressive community and decided he wanted to live alone. Lol. Seems I'm the only species he can be cordial with; otherwise, it's all-out war. With that said, I wouldn't worry about anything at or above 72 degrees.

Dominick
Edited to add info.

 

[GaryE]

I've never been a fan of the larger Trichopodus species. I find them quite aggressive, even in larger tanks. I once found a reference to the hobby three spot being found in fast moving water, and I've wondered if like a lot of fish kept in slow moving tanks, the aggression 'flows' from pent up energy.

 

[Aquaria Pro Aquatics]

I've never been a fan of the larger Trichopodus species. I find them quite aggressive, even in larger tanks. I once found a reference to the hobby three spot being found in fast moving water, and I've wondered if like a lot of fish kept in slow moving tanks, the aggression 'flows' from pent up energy.

I never thought of that but I might raise the flow and see if it helps his aggression.

Dominick

 

[TNG]

I've never been a fan of the larger Trichopodus species. I find them quite aggressive, even in larger tanks. I once found a reference to the hobby three spot being found in fast moving water, and I've wondered if like a lot of fish kept in slow moving tanks, the aggression 'flows' from pent up energy.

When I lived in the tropics decades ago, I only ever found 3 spot gouramis in slow moving water or in large water ponds, those dug by villagers to supply drinking water. They are nest builders that need calm water so that's to be expected.
There may well be some that find themselves in fast moving water as a result of flooding in the rainy season.

 

[Alice B]

apparently I'm battling AI...

I can put the pearl gourami in a different tank, and have been looking at paradise fish, with conflicting results...
one source says 75 - 82 F. for a

Macropodus opercularis​

and another source say's... they prefer cooler, non-tropical temperatures around 60-74°F.

I'll continue to dig...

AI is dumb. I know people that followed AI sewing machine repair instructions. Results not good. Grateful I have kept my best fish books and hobby books. The dumb down is intensive