Things never stay “perfect” for long…

[Magnum Man]

My Zebra Lace Angels have grown up together, and are both pretty big right now, in over a year in the tank together, I’ve never seen any aggression, between them… tonight is the first time, I’ve seen them sorta not get along, “pretty one” is dominant, and kept moving the other out of the center of the tank… never seen that before… I just fed them shrimp cocktail, just now, and suddenly it’s ok again…

 

[AJ356]

Adult angels together are nasty things. Hopefully your dominant one settles down again.

 

[GaryE]

It's awful to watch, but it seems an unavoidable part of Cichlid keeping. They are as nasty as human 13 year olds, as whomever matures first can be awful to whomever hasn't. A version of multi-tank syndrome is Cichlid Maturity Management Syndrome. I've added a few tanks over the years as the need for space has hit the fish.

 

[Fishfunn]

My Zebra Lace Angels have grown up together, and are both pretty big right now, in over a year in the tank together, I’ve never seen any aggression, between them… tonight is the first time, I’ve seen them sorta not get along, “pretty one” is dominant, and kept moving the other out of the center of the tank… never seen that before… I just fed them shrimp cocktail, just now, and suddenly it’s ok again…

Maybe one is ready to spawn and is getting a little irritable? I wonder what sex each is.

 

[Magnum Man]

I’m assuming they were siblings, and they grew up together, in this tank.. dominant fish is not mercilessly chasing the other, just pushing it out of the center of the tank, for now…

I’ve asked about the non dominant one before, it’s almost like it’s mentally deficient… it eats well enough to grow up, but seems to not act normally…

Their relationship before, was always like the dominant looked after the other… maybe it’s just tired of mothering the other???

 

[TwoTankAmin]

What we tend to forget is that most of the angels in the hobby are not wild, they are the result of breeding by us in ways that may alter things over time. I have only ever wanted two varieties of angels. The first were double dark blacks and I was given 6 by a breeder with an unusually lovely black. The looked like they were made of black velevet. They came to me small and as they grew a pair finally formed and I had to move out the other 3 (one was lost in growing). Cichlids are not always nice fish, especially when they become pairs and then parents. They are merciless then.

I had the angels in my planted 45 gal. community tank. Then one day I noticed all the other fish cowering at either end of the tank. It was not long after that the angels began to clean a large anubias leaf. And then came the eggs, over 500 in the first spawn. And this was when I realized I did not want to be an angel breeder. But there was a good side to this story. The lady who bred them lost her line . But I had managed to raise about 25 of the 500 fry I got. I was not equiped to do much more than this. So I was able to send her back about a dozen of the kids so she could get the line back.

The only other angels I ever wanted were Altums which mostly they came out of the wild as they are very difficult to spawn in captivity. It took me years before I felt I was even able to try keeping them. My first group all died oon after they arrived. I and other memebesr of the wild anegl site (now gone) worked with an importer in Texas to bring in about 100. Only 2 of the 100 surived after the first month. Wild Altums cannot fight off most of the things we have in our tanks because wild angels have no resistance to them. Wild Altums live in water with a pH around 4.0. Many bacteria cannot live in such acid water.

One of the members on the angel site managed to spawn them with the help of one of the Admins who was an expert. The four larger Altums I have now were tank bred by him. I took them in trade as partial payment from a buyer of my plecos. Tank raised Altums are way more hardy than than those taken from the wild.

In the wild, altums live in groups and manage to get along fine. My four have been living together in my tank for many years, There is minimal squabling and I mostly see them hanging together. I was told by the person from whom I got my first try at Altums and who also breed wild discus explained the following to me. In the wild, discus live in large groups. Some of the group- the largest and baddest live at the perimeter of the group and act as it's defenders. These tend also to be the most colorful and are very desirable. However, when they get imported their fins are usually in poor shape from fighting. One has to be prepared to patiently wait for their fins to regrow to see their real beauty.

But what was more interesting was when I was told that wild scalare angels will often shelter within the a discus group to take advantage of the protection this offers. I cannot confirm any of this, but having been in this guy's fishroom and seen his fish and the most elaborate system for supplying very acid water to his tanks I have ever seen, I have no reason to think he was not accurate in what he told me.

This is just one example of how taking fish from the wild and then creating many color and fin morphs via selective breeding in captivity can change the natural temperament of a species. If you want to see some of the prettiest angels you have ever seen, watch the vid below:

 

[Colin_T]

They reached sexual maturity, or at least one of them has. Now the fights (or fun) begins.

 

[Uberhoust]

My experience with angels, all I keep are angels and neos now, is that if you have more than a pair of adults you have to expect to need to setup a new tank from time to time. I manage to keep a number of adults together now approaching two years, longest time yet for me. But to do this I don't really change anything in the tank, in particular the hard scape, plants that change the swimming areas, or adding new fish. Any change causes a re-establishment of the social hierarchy, and with it issues.

 

[Magnum Man]

I’m still trying to figure out these angels… the dominant one, may have reached sexual maturity, and the other not… I don’t really see any aggression between them… the dominant just pursues the other, and the submissive must not understand??? I’m not seeing any picking at each other, just following, and running away…

Would seem they would be hard to breed, getting 2 at the same level of maturity, that can stand each other, at just that right time…

When I’m feeding, the dominant one gives up center tank to the submissive

 

[Colin_T]

I’m still trying to figure out these angels… the dominant one, may have reached sexual maturity, and the other not… I don’t really see any aggression between them… the dominant just pursues the other, and the submissive must not understand??? I’m not seeing any picking at each other, just following, and running away…

Would seem they would be hard to breed, getting 2 at the same level of maturity, that can stand each other, at just that right time…

When I’m feeding, the dominant one gives up center tank to the submissive

That is aggression in angelfish. Chasing, bullying, looking at the other fish, etc they are minor things most people don't see but it's body language and the dominant fish is picking on the weaker one.

To get breeding pairs of cichlids, buy a group of 8-10 young fish and grow them up together. They can choose their own partners and there is a lot less aggression. Plus any aggression gets spread out over all the fish and not just the single angelfish.