Tetra's Dying

[JJJ]

HI

I have a 40 Gal planted tank

Plants: 2 hygro bunches and 3 Cypts, and ambulia no CO2 injector

I have 4 seprea tetra and 3 red eye tetra, and a pleco two of the serpea tetras go fin rot 2 days ago, One is gone..


current water parameters, they have been like this for the last 2 weeks since I finished cycling

PH:6.8 -7
ammonia 0
nitrite=0
nitrate =10
kh=4dkh
gh= 9dkh
tremp 26 degrees celcius

Here is a little bit of history: I treated my tank about a month ago with external bateria treatment( see red eye dropsy or pregnent), A few other fish got itch, I ended up removing my sponge and starting a new cycle, Fish mentioned above are the only one that survived, now the serpeas are getting fin rot?
After the cycle the fish start eating again for about 4 days, then I got a ph spike 7.6+, I have managed to stabilise it the fish have not eaten since.
I have just been doing water changes and monitoring water parmeters, I still feed them once a day, hoping they may eat during the day
I do 30% water changes 2 times a week

I have been cleaning the filter sponge weekly in aquaruim water, as I have a hang on filter it tends to get glooged by the end of the week . the sponge is 6 weeks old. I have removed the carbon balls since the last treatment

I use ferts on my plants , flourish and excell as directed , I have some algea, the pleco is ok( a little pale) however the plants are still growing(a little dark)
Light on 6-10 hrs a day, with a 1 hour break in the middle.

The fish however do not eat( i have tried flake frozen brine, still active...they where fine after the cycle..

I don't know where to from here , do i begin treatment again?

Could they be still infected from the prevous fish was it contagioius?( the provious desease was Icke/Dropsy, could this be a side effect)

Is there too much CO2, at "lights out" they move to the top of the tank? during the day when light are on, they go everywhere.

I have noticed ramshorn snails, could they be a problem?

Do I require more fish to balance the cycle( 130 litre tank)?

I also have a airstone at the other end of the tank oppisite the filter to increase water flow, to combat cyano bacteria...

any opionions ,suggestion as I am starting to running short....



thanks.

 

[WILDER]

You just had to use a med for whitespot not start the cycle again.
You don't touch your sponges for months in a new set up.
I think you need to read up on a cycling tank.
What is your tap ph.
Don't use ph adjusters there more trouble then there worth.
I would post this thread in beginner new to the hobby.
Did you get rid of the whitespot, also finrot is common with whitepot.
Finrot is mainly caused by bad water quality.

 

[JJJ]

You just had to use a med for whitespot not start the cycle again.
You don't touch your sponges for months in a new set up.
I think you need to read up on a cycling tank.
What is your tap ph.
Don't use ph adjusters there more trouble then there worth.
I would post this thread in beginner new to the hobby.
Did you get rid of the whitespot, also finrot is common with whitepot.
Finrot is mainly caused by bad water quality.

Sorry I didn't explian why I had to remove the sponge,It was part of the carbon ball cartrigde in hang on filter so to medicate the tank it had to be removed, I did retreive around a 1/4 of the sponge, the rest was new. I also have a bio cartridge (grid type design). Do I need extra filtration? if I add more sponge the filter cloggs up,

The initial treatment a month ago the med did get rid of the withspot, then of course the cycle which claimed a few more fish, the reading above suggest the cycle is complete? I have had those reading for approx two weeks. I don;t know what caused the PH spike? any ideas, I have vineger tested the rocks, they are OK..

My tap PH is 6

I have had the tank aereating all day, reading as such
Ph 6.8, KH=5dkh, ammonia =0, nitrate =0,nitrates =10.

What can I do to check for quality of water?

Any advise

 

[WILDER]

Many things can cause a ph spike, even a cycling tank can alter ph.
Did you squeeze any beneifical bacteria onto the new sponges.

 

[JJJ]

You just had to use a med for whitespot not start the cycle again.
You don't touch your sponges for months in a new set up.
I think you need to read up on a cycling tank.
What is your tap ph.
Don't use ph adjusters there more trouble then there worth.
I would post this thread in beginner new to the hobby.
Did you get rid of the whitespot, also finrot is common with whitepot.
Finrot is mainly caused by bad water quality.

Sorry I didn't explian why I had to remove the sponge,It was part of the carbon ball cartrigde in hang on filter so to medicate the tank it had to be removed, I did retreive around a 1/4 of the sponge, the rest was new. I also have a bio cartridge (grid type design). Do I need extra filtration? if I add more sponge the filter cloggs up,

The initial treatment a month ago the med did get rid of the withspot, then of course the cycle which claimed a few more fish, the reading above suggest the cycle is complete? I have had those reading for approx two weeks. I don;t know what caused the PH spike? any ideas, I have vineger tested the rocks, they are OK..

My tap PH is 6

I have had the tank aereating all day, reading as such
Ph 6.8, KH=5dkh, ammonia =0, nitrate =0,nitrates =10.

What can I do to check for quality of water?

Any advise? I started treatment today, starting to get worried!!

I will post it in the "New to the hobby forum"

 

[Colin_T]

Tap water often has an artificial PH and can go up or down after it has been exposed to the air for a bit. Aerating it for a few hours often raises the PH. This happens because CO2 is driven out of the water and oxygen is allowed back in.
An airstone at one end of the tank should provide ample oxygen to the fishes even when the lights are out.
The fish might not have fin rot but could in fact be nipping each others fins/tails. Serpae and red-eye tetras are notorious for fin nipping and if they are kept in small numbers will be worse.
Fin rot is generally caused by poor water quality damaging the fish and allowing bacteria to gain entry into the wound. Then it spreads and destroys the tissue.

If the filters are blocking up within a week or so then you need more filtration on the tank. Perhaps add a course sponge from an Aquaclear HOB (Hang On Back) filter. They can be cut to size and won’t clog up as quickly as a fine filter. Alternatively get yourself another type of filter that has more filter media and won’t need cleaning as often.

If you overdose with plant fertilisers you could cause problems to the fish.
Make sure you remove any food that isn’t eaten otherwise it could cause an ammonia reading, which will stress the fish. Make sure you use dechlorinated water with a similar temp & PH to the tank. Make sure you use a clean bucket that hasn’t been used for any chemicals or cleaning agents. Have a backing on the tank to make the fish feel more secure. Don’t feed the fish immediately after the lights have been turned on. Maybe reduce the number of water changes and see if that helps the fish.

Have the lights on for about 10hours per day and just leave them on continuously. Don’t have a break in the middle of the day. Before you turn the lights on in the morning open the curtains or turn the room lights on. Leave it for 15-30minutes and then turn the tank lights on. Leave it for an hour or so before feeding the fish. In the evening turn the room lights on before turning the tank lights off. Then leave the room lights on for 15-30 minutes before turning them off.

Snails won’t be causing the problems.

Don’t add any new fish until the others settle down and you haven’t lost any for at least 2 weeks.

 

[JJJ]

Tap water often has an artificial PH and can go up or down after it has been exposed to the air for a bit. Aerating it for a few hours often raises the PH. This happens because CO2 is driven out of the water and oxygen is allowed back in.
An airstone at one end of the tank should provide ample oxygen to the fishes even when the lights are out.
The fish might not have fin rot but could in fact be nipping each others fins/tails. Serpae and red-eye tetras are notorious for fin nipping and if they are kept in small numbers will be worse.
Fin rot is generally caused by poor water quality damaging the fish and allowing bacteria to gain entry into the wound. Then it spreads and destroys the tissue.

If the filters are blocking up within a week or so then you need more filtration on the tank. Perhaps add a course sponge from an Aquaclear HOB (Hang On Back) filter. They can be cut to size and won’t clog up as quickly as a fine filter. Alternatively get yourself another type of filter that has more filter media and won’t need cleaning as often.

If you overdose with plant fertilisers you could cause problems to the fish.
Make sure you remove any food that isn’t eaten otherwise it could cause an ammonia reading, which will stress the fish. Make sure you use dechlorinated water with a similar temp & PH to the tank. Make sure you use a clean bucket that hasn’t been used for any chemicals or cleaning agents. Have a backing on the tank to make the fish feel more secure. Don’t feed the fish immediately after the lights have been turned on. Maybe reduce the number of water changes and see if that helps the fish.

Have the lights on for about 10hours per day and just leave them on continuously. Don’t have a break in the middle of the day. Before you turn the lights on in the morning open the curtains or turn the room lights on. Leave it for 15-30minutes and then turn the tank lights on. Leave it for an hour or so before feeding the fish. In the evening turn the room lights on before turning the tank lights off. Then leave the room lights on for 15-30 minutes before turning them off.

Snails won’t be causing the problems.

Don’t add any new fish until the others settle down and you haven’t lost any for at least 2 weeks.

Hi Wilder
I kept that 1/4 of the sponge it is still in the filter..

Today readings: ph-7, kh =6 dkh amm=0, nitrite=0,nitrate=10. Aeration all day, treatment and ferts, one feed this morning(fish not interested) removed food after 1/2 hour)
ligths on for 10 hrs.

Lost 2 red eyes

Hi Colin,

Good to see an Aussie on the forum!

It is an Aquaclear HOB filter 500litres per hr, a little history: when I started the tank in Jan08 stocked with about 20 tetras(red eye, black skirt Serpea ect... the filter came with a carbon ball/sponge cartridge and bio-cartridge, all was fine, cycled in jan OK, one casualty, fish seem happy, feeding ok, all pretty active, it all started when may when I had to treat red eye with dropsy (see red dropsy/preg tread) i removed the carbon ball cartridge for treatment, i added fine sponge from my LFS use, it been there ever since 6-8 weeks
looking ayt the readings I had finished the cycle the fish where still ok, every week I am cleaning the filter sponge in aquaruim water, that would increas flow . reading remain constant unit the last week a ph spike and fin rot begins?

Opps forgot to mention the hygros and crypts where added just before the Red eye got Dropsy.

I will try your suggest tommorrow with the light on/off hopefully they eat something...

If I add a course sponge I will have to remove at least half the current filter media, will that cause problems?

Would plants put an extra load on the filter, every day I'm removing some debrie a leaf here and there, ( with the treatment I'm losing some leaves)Aeration on all day (full on there is plenty of terbulance on the surface , is this stressing the fish ) I turn the aeration off at night.

Any recommendation on a filters my tank is l=92cm,w=36cm,h=46cm. any disadvantages/advantage with the HOB, and filter media?

Thank you both for your help/ suggestions.. hopefully I get to save a few..

 

[Davo86]

I may be reading this incorrectly but it doesn't sound as though tha tank is being cycled correctly?
what happened to the suviving fish in between cycles?

 

[JJJ]

I haven't added any Fish The list mention at the top of the post survived the first Initial Cycle in Jan and latest Cycle 2 weeks ago..
the only diffwerence between this cycle and the first cycle is that the filter had carbon balls in the first cycle and different filter media was used.

 

[Colin_T]

It shouldn't affect the filtration very much, (if at all) if you change half of the filter materials. Aquaclear HOB filters can normally hold 3 types of filter media. I have 3 sponges in mine and they do a pretty good job. I don't use carbon because it removes the plant fertilisers from the water. And I don't bother with the ceramic beads because the sponges hold bacteria and gunk, whereas the beads/ noodles only hold bacteria.

Try having the airstone on all the time or at night instead of during the day. When plants get light they photosynthesise and use carbon dioxide (CO2) and convert it into oxygen (O2). At night when the lights are off they use O2 and release CO2. You really want the aeration at night rather than during the day. This could also have something to do with the PH fluctuating. CO2 is acidic and if it builds up in the water the PH can drop. Then when the water gets aerated the excess CO2 is driven out and the PH goes back up. The KH should be preventing this but it might not be doing its job properly.
The other thing would be the aeration is stressing the fish if it is turned on first thing in the morning at the same time as the lights. I would just have the air pump running all the time, however it is probably going to make a bit of noise and might keep you awake. Rena and Whisper pumps are pretty quiet but they tend to be a bit pricey. I am using a pump called a “Precision SR9500”. It is very quiet and seems to make a lot of air, and it was really cheap.
The Aquaclear should provide a reasonable amount of surface turbulence as long as the tank's water level is below the level of the filter outlet.

Don't do any water changes for a week and see if that helps. I know we had problems with Perth water a while ago and if we did water changes too often the fish actually became really nervous. We stopped the water changes for a few weeks and it seemed to help. Now they are only done each week or every couple of weeks. I also have to make the tap water up a couple of days before I use it otherwise I have all sorts of problems with the fish dieing.

Stop using plant fertiliser for a couple of weeks and see if that helps. The plants won’t die because of that but they will stop growing during that time. It might be an excess of plant food that is stressing the fish. High doses of plant fertiliser can cause liver damage to fish and cause them to develop bloating/ dropsy.

Try feeding the fish in the afternoon rather than the morning. Live brineshrimp should be eaten by any fish as are daphnia and mozzie larvae.

If the finrot is getting worse then maybe try some medication. Most general medications should kill the bacteria that cause the finrot.

 

[JJJ]

I am already using treatment,for the last 3 days, the fin rot seems to be slowing, not stopped!!

The water seems a little cloudy in the last week I'm not sure if that is caused be the aeration, Treatment or bad filter? ( I have been aerating every day since this last cycle, 2 weeks ago.

In my HOB I have a plastic bio grid cartridge ( plastic mess design, is that useful? on the filter user guige it mentions it provide Bio filtration), or I may remove it toio give me more space?



todays readings:
Ammonia=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrate=5 (could this have decreased due to aeration? or plant absorption?)
Ph=6.8
KH=6 dkh

thanks will keep you posted!

 

[Colin_T]

aeration won't cause the water to go cloudy. Excess food and a filter that isn't established are the main causes of milky coloured cloudy water. And too much light encourages free floating algae which causes green cloudy water.

If you are treating the tank you want to increase aeration if possible. Medications reduce the oxygen in the water. By increasing the aeration/ surface turbulence you will help to keep the oxygen levels up.

nitrates aren't reduced by aeration but do get used by plants.

 

[JJJ]

Hi
Its been a week of treatment, aeration during the day, off at night, I have introduced a course Filter media , water has become clearer, more importantly I have had no casualties, the fin rot is still evident, it hasn't progressed, fish are still not eating at feeding time( don't know how they are surviving) however they seem more active especially after lights out, they still look fine , no cloady eyes or film over skin ect.. could they still be sick?

I think also have gotten rid of the blue green algae, I kept the lights OFF for 2 days, then on for one day and off for another.

I have noticed my filter media has some green substance, algea I assume could it be treatment,should I remove it/be concerned?

I have not done a water change since last Thursday, Ramshorn snails a going mad,( i think they have doubled since last week ~50) they are helping in removing some green algae on the back class, also gleaning the food not eaten.


todays readings:
Ammonia=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrate=5
Ph=7
KH=6 dkh

Have been monitoring every day with similar readings only change being ph between 6.8 to 7)

Any further thoughts? should I start looking at restocking yet?

 

[JJJ]

Hi
Its been a week of treatment, aeration during the day, off at night, I have introduced a course Filter media , water has become clearer, more importantly I have had no casualties, the fin rot is still evident, it hasn't progressed, fish are still not eating at feeding time( don't know how they are surviving) however they seem more active especially after lights out, they still look fine , no cloady eyes or film over skin ect.. could they still be sick?

I think also have gotten rid of the blue green algae, I kept the lights OFF for 2 days, then on for one day and off for another.

I have noticed my filter media has some green substance, algea I assume could it be treatment,should I remove it/be concerned?

I have not done a water change since last Thursday, Ramshorn snails a going mad,( i think they have doubled since last week ~50) they are helping in removing some green algae on the back class, also gleaning the food not eaten.


todays readings:
Ammonia=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrate=5
Ph=7
KH=6 dkh

Have been monitoring every day with similar readings only change being ph between 6.8 to 7)

Any further thoughts? should I start looking at restocking yet?

HI Again,

You all must be enjoying Holidays, here at Oz we are at the begginning of winter 10-15 degrees.

Another Upgate the blue/green algae has cleared, I have done a 25% water change mainly because there was a lot of plant debri, and the filter was getting clogged, so I cleaned the sponge in tank water and back into the filter, the fin rot is still evident the fish have been more active in the last week, active during day and night, howevrer still not eating any suggestions, they still look healty except for the fin rot, I have run out of treatment, should i just monitor, before I treat again?

todays readings:
Ammonia=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrate=10
Ph=7
KH=7 dkh
GH=8 dKh

Any suggestions/advice welcome, again I am looking at restocking with Tetras(any good/bad experiences?)
I have a 40Gal planted

thanks in advance...

 

[JJJ]

Hi
Its been a week of treatment, aeration during the day, off at night, I have introduced a course Filter media , water has become clearer, more importantly I have had no casualties, the fin rot is still evident, it hasn't progressed, fish are still not eating at feeding time( don't know how they are surviving) however they seem more active especially after lights out, they still look fine , no cloady eyes or film over skin ect.. could they still be sick?

I think also have gotten rid of the blue green algae, I kept the lights OFF for 2 days, then on for one day and off for another.

I have noticed my filter media has some green substance, algea I assume could it be treatment,should I remove it/be concerned?

I have not done a water change since last Thursday, Ramshorn snails a going mad,( i think they have doubled since last week ~50) they are helping in removing some green algae on the back class, also gleaning the food not eaten.


todays readings:
Ammonia=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrate=5
Ph=7
KH=6 dkh

Have been monitoring every day with similar readings only change being ph between 6.8 to 7)

Any further thoughts? should I start looking at restocking yet?

HI Again,

You all must be enjoying Holidays, here at Oz we are at the begginning of winter 10-15 degrees.

Another Upgate the blue/green algae has cleared, I have done a 25% water change mainly because there was a lot of plant debri, and the filter was getting clogged, so I cleaned the sponge in tank water and back into the filter, the fin rot is still evident the fish have been more active in the last week, active during day and night, howevrer still not eating any suggestions, they still look healty except for the fin rot, I have run out of treatment, should i just monitor, before I treat again?

todays readings:
Ammonia=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrate=10
Ph=7
KH=7 dkh
GH=8 dKh

Any suggestions/advice welcome, again I am looking at restocking with Tetras(any good/bad experiences?)
I have a 40Gal planted

thanks in advance...

Hi again ,
Another update,
plants going well, the serpeas seem to have an apetite and fins are growing back (good news) also started stocking with silvertips and sae's see 40gal planted post..
there is still some green algae around( long stands on plants, the blue /green has gone, I am aerating at night and off during the day, I will be reducing lights to six hours, to remove algae..

todays reading- in fact they have the same for almost two weeks..
Ammonia=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrate=5
Ph=7
KH=6dkh
GH=9 dKh

shoukd I be cocerned about the level of nitrate, Is it too low?
Can I reduce my water changes to every 2 weeks if the reading above remains constant?

Any suggestions/advice welcome....