tetra fish numbers

[Jaws.k]

Hi again all..
hope your week is going good.

i have the boyu byg 86. Its an 86lt tank, at the moment it as only plants & an ornament in, no fish.

I was looking at the ....
Black Phantom Tetras,
Red Phantom Tetras

I did put a number of the amount of fish, i said 12 to max' 15

As i also was thinking of the Otto Cat, i was thinking about 4 - max 6.

& a hand full of Shrimp (was looking at blue tigers) how many ... about 8.

Do you think im over stocking or even get close to it.?
Also do you think the colors will be ok or to dark / bland.?

i meant to say / ask,
Can i add all the above at the same time or type by type.?


thanks all.

 

[Byron]

A tank of 86 liters is roughly a 20g (for the NA of us). Dimensions as well help us, as some fish need length to swim, others less. The two tetras here are not active swimmers, so either in the numbers given are OK. The Red (Hyphessobrycon sweglesi) will be more colourful than the Black (Hyphessobrycon megalopterus). Both species remain in the lower half of the water column, and need good plant cover. A fairly even ratio of male/female will provide good interest. The males will spend hours "displaying" which to the fish is a fairly serious act of dominant jockeying.

Otos at 4-6 is OK number wise, though I would not select this species in this small a tank. Your space is very limited and this fish is not exactly "out there" much; I never even saw my group or very rarely. The shrimp I will leave for the shrimp experts.

 

[seangee]

Agree on the otos and also worth noting that many that you buy may not eat algae wafers and will already be starved when you buy them. So they absolutley need to go into a mature tank with plenty of biofilm - even green algae. They won't eat BBA or other problem algae. Most deaths of new otos are due to starvation.

Caradina are very sensitive to water quality (including nitrates). Do not add these until yoou are absolutely sure the tank can cope with the bioload, and with fish in the tank you should be doing at least 50% weekly changes, but 75% would be much better.

If the tank is fully cycled and ready to accept them I would add the shrimp first. Make sure there are plenty of plants and wood for them to hide. You will actually see them more if they have plenty of cover. Give them a couple of weeks to grow and settle in before adding the fish, perhaps even wait till you first batch of shrimplets. The reason I suggest doing it in this order is that fish interpret little wriggly things arriving in the top of their tank as food.

Edit: I forgot to say everything you mentioned would do better in soft water, what is the GH of your water?

 

[Jaws.k]

thanks both for reply.

the black phantom tetra look alittle like the bala shark, which id love but to big for me.
the phantoms will make use of all the tank tho, will they byron.?
& its best to put the full amount in other than 6 & 6 or x & x.?

otto cats look the nicest of the cleaner's il call them.
i dont think theres much if any algae in the yank yet seanee.
algae waffers, ive seen this being said, but thought it was a fish food for the clean up crew.
so you think either wait for a fairly long time before i get this otto or change my choice to something that takes to the waffers.?

il look again over the fish supply shop /s. see what takes my fancy & able to feed.

50 - 75 % water change, thats a lot ...???
how long would you wait before you added the blue tiger shrimp.?
i could tho, put in the phantoms & wait for xx weeks until i put the shrimp in & that time the tank should be ready to home / feed them.?

i did a water test last night & posted it onto another thread i opened, il copy the GH to here in a few minutes for you.

thanks both for your help.

 

[Jaws.k]

my GH = 8-16d .. at the moment done with a tetra 6in1 water test, seangee. is this soft or hard reading.?

 

[Byron]

the black phantom tetra look alittle like the bala shark, which id love but to big for me.
the phantoms will make use of all the tank tho, will they byron.?
& its best to put the full amount in other than 6 & 6 or x & x.?

Agree the Bala is definitely no go here. The Black and Red Phantom Tetra tend to remain among the plants (or hiding in the corner if no plant shelter is provided) in the lower half of the tank. They do not swim actively. The males will challenge each other, but it is generally a stationary challenge. This is common with many characins, among tetras and pencilfish especially. I could maybe compare their activity to another fish but I've n idea which other fish you might be familiar with for it to make sense.

Any shoaling fish like the tetras should alkways have the entire intended number added together. They will settle in much faster with significantly less chance of problems like ich, and if the species does have any sort of hierarchy that gets established very early and having all of them is best.

otto cats look the nicest of the cleaner's il call them.
i dont think theres much if any algae in the yank yet seanee.
algae waffers, ive seen this being said, but thought it was a fish food for the clean up crew.
so you think either wait for a fairly long time before i get this otto or change my choice to something that takes to the waffers.?

Otos will graze surfaces and eat algae, but this is the algae you and I cannot really even see anyway. Definitely hold off on otos until the tank is established which means a few months after fish are first in it.

Corydoras catfish would provide much more interest, if that is what you want. ?? And any fish be it cory or oto needs proper type of foods. The sinking foods are good for catfish and some other substrate feeders.

There can never be too many water changes. I have been doing 60-70, sometimes closer to 80%, once a week for years now. I used to do 50% back in the 1990's but increased as I began to see (understand as much as observe) the incredible benefits.

 

[Jaws.k]

when i had my cold gold fish, x3, in the same tank, with plastic plants, i did a 25% change every 2-3 weeks.

i started to find a green slime-y stuff, like the slippy stuff you'd find on a river / stream, & the guy in the shop said it was algae & so i got a cleaner fish (x3) cant recall what they were. but they all lived a nice long life in well feed tank.

when i did my water change i never used any water treatments.

do you use any on the size your changing byron.?

this gold fish tank was set up about 8 yrs ago or so.

 

[Byron]

when i had my cold gold fish, x3, in the same tank, with plastic plants, i did a 25% change every 2-3 weeks.

i started to find a green slime-y stuff, like the slippy stuff you'd find on a river / stream, & the guy in the shop said it was algae & so i got a cleaner fish (x3) cant recall what they were. but they all lived a nice long life in well feed tank.

when i did my water change i never used any water treatments.

do you use any on the size your changing byron.?

this gold fish tank was set up about 8 yrs ago or so.

I add conditioner to deal with chlorine, and I use and highly recommend API's Tap Water Conditioner because it is very concentrated which means you need less, and it is basic in dealing with chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals, nothing else. I will not add any other additives other than plant fertilizer.

 

[Retired Viking]

I am the same way as @Byron, only use conditioner and Seachem Flourish Comprehensive for my plants. Every chemical you add ends up in your fish so I avoid them.

 

[Essjay]

This is the tank

Interpet | Your Family Pet Store - Shop Online

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It is a semicircular tank which is 61 cm/24 inches across the back; 37 cm/14.5 inches front to back at the widest part and 61 cm/24 inches tall.
Given the footprint of the tank it needs careful stocking as it is a half circle. Only the very back of the tank is 61 cm/24 inches getting narrower towards the front.

my GH = 8-16d .. at the moment done with a tetra 6in1 water test, seangee. is this soft or hard reading.?

You need to pin that down more closely, the range is too large. 8 dH is at the top end of soft while 16 is hard.
I know it can be tricky finding your hardness on line in Ireland, but see what you can find on your water provider's website.

 

[seangee]

my GH = 8-16d .. at the moment done with a tetra 6in1 water test, seangee. is this soft or hard reading.?

I assume you mean the reading is between the 2 values. Which one is it closer to?
I did not pick up on the shape of the tank, @essjay is correct that does reduce your stocking options.

 

[Jaws.k]

Hi lads, sorry I'm only getting to say thanks for your reply & the info / help.
It's appreciated.

Yes, that's my tank, essjay. I love it, not to big, but it's not to small. well don't take a load of room.

I'm using a tetra 6 in 1 water test, strip's, you dip them in shake of the excess & read it against the card indicated. But yes, it's in between the 2 figure's.
Is there a more accurate test out there.?
Say an electronic 1 that tells you say... 8.6 dh.
Ive seen a liquid test out there but there the same kind of thing, the colour is between light blue & dark blue. 8. - 16.

Be interesting to use I'd say, but probably expensive.

To tell you the truth, I've tested my tap water with same test , straight from the tap, & it's the same. & I keep the strip for a short while.

How often do you guys test your water.?
I'm doing it every time I do a change & sometimes in the middle of the weekly change. & no difference.

Talk to you later.
I must get back to work...Doh!

 

[Byron]

How often do you guys test your water.?
I'm doing it every time I do a change & sometimes in the middle of the weekly change. & no difference.

Initially, it is wise to test frequently, and once you see a clear stability over a period of time less frequent tests are fine, eventually evening omitting them altogether. Unless something goes awry, say a fish or fishes dying, then tests should immediately be one of the first steps, along with a massive water change (test before the W/C obviously).

Generally, test just before you do the water change. I did this for several weeks, then alternate weeks, then monthly, then every 3-4 months, now never--all this over a period of several years. Tests once the tank seems established (ammonia and nitrite always being zero, and nitrate and pH basically the same each time) can be done for nitrate and pH only. The aim is to have these absolutely identical every time, so far as nitrate goes, and with pH the variance if any should be within a couple decimal places.

Each tank can establish a different pH, but the tank itself should remain the same from test to test. As should nitrate. This is the sign of a balanced, stable system. Tests are done prior to the water change because this will indicate any changes during the week of the tank running on its own biological system.

 

[Jaws.k]

hi byron, good evening, & to you all.
thanks for info.
so basically, my tank is running nearly perfect. My water test's are all very close if not the same, but thats using the 6 in 1 tetra water test. Id like a more precise test.
Have you used the Api fresh water master test kit 800.?
this looks like a more precise tester.

Also, bryon.... is there any reason or anything to do a heavy metal water test.?
Ive seen that you can buy heavy metal water test kits, there the same as the above, but they test for lead, iron, mercury, theres another 1 or 2 but i cant think.


talk to you soon.

 

[Byron]

hi byron, good evening, & to you all.
thanks for info.
so basically, my tank is running nearly perfect. My water test's are all very close if not the same, but thats using the 6 in 1 tetra water test. Id like a more precise test.
Have you used the Api fresh water master test kit 800.?
this looks like a more precise tester.

Also, bryon.... is there any reason or anything to do a heavy metal water test.?
Ive seen that you can buy heavy metal water test kits, there the same as the above, but they test for lead, iron, mercury, theres another 1 or 2 but i cant think.


talk to you soon.

I use API liquid tests, they are adequate for my needs. I rarely test anything now though, there is no need. After 30+ years of fish keeping I can at least easily see if something is wrong, though as I have often said diagnosing disease is very difficult. But there is no point in doing tests when the system is obviously biologically established and stable. It is often the aquarist who interferes that causes problems. A couple weeks ago I decided for fun to test the pH prior to the water changes. I have my notes of tests for the past decade. After noting down the test results, I went back through the notebook and saw, as I fully expected, that each tank was exactly the pH it has been from being set up.

There is no need to waste money on heavy metal tests, unless you are on a well and the water is not otherwise tested. Municipal water must meet specific standards respecting heavy metals, so if you can safely drink the water it is not going to be much of a problem. Note I said "much" of a problem...human levels of safe copper will kill fish. But most conditioners detoxify heavy metals temporarily, and if plants are present they will take these up.