Tap Water

[iain.betson]

Hi,
Got my water tested at fish shop along with my tap water and as stated above my tap water is coming out with high levels of nitrate above 100ppm. According to lfs this is above the legal limit. I am currently in contact with the local water authoriies to try and get an analsys done and get to the bottom of it.
Anyone having or had similar results after testing tap water?
Does any one know the leagal limits for tap water?
Many Thanks

 

[jayjay]

Well I said something about this earlier and it didn't go down well but i'll say it again. There has been nothing proven to happen to fish in waters with nitrate up to 100ppm but someone will say something most likely. If you read the post by 'andywg' on this topic it tells about how a scientific paper tested nitrate level on marine fish which are alot more sensitive. Have a here

 

[4ftguppy]

There are so many fish.

From the humble carp that has been bred in filth ladden duck ponds full of gunge for centuries to the, many obscure varieties that will die the second they leave anything different from their fresh clean mountain streams.

I suggest you find a local shop that just uses your local tap water - and find out what fish they think thrive.


Many aquarium species have adapted to the 'different' conditions offered by aquarists - there will be some that take this in their stride (goldfish) and many that will not. (elephant nose fish to name just one)

And very many more in between. I suggest you stick to the easier species - or consider collecting rainwater!

 

[Bloo]

Well I said something about this earlier and it didn't go down well but i'll say it again. There has been nothing proven to happen to fish in waters with nitrate up to 100ppm but someone will say something most likely.

I don't need proof. Mine lies in the pudding. Well in a manner of speaking.
London tap water (the infamous Thames Water) often have nitrates up to around 50ppm (which in the region of legal limits I believe). Back in the time when I struggled with an internal filter and high stocking (yet perfectly within limits), my fish showed the signs of of nitrate / toxin levels building up and showing the strain. They just "looked" unwell unless I always performed my weekly 50% water changes. They were sluggish and lethargic and "moped around". After each water change and subsequent days (i.e. lower nitrates) they'd perk up and look much better.

Nothing else needed for me. On top of which has been reported and documented for donkeys years. Not to say that nothing needs to be questioned just because it's been a known fact for years, but there is proof.
Apart from that, many fish will only breed in extremely low nitrate levels. And well, there there's Discus.

They might survive in levels of 100ppm for a while. Thrive they won't. And pretty soon they'd become unwell and susceptible to diseases and all sorts. Die prematurely they will.

Need i say more ?

 

[Majjie]

According to the bumpf sent to me my Severn Trent water, the PCV (Prescribed Concentration or Value) for nitrate is 50 mg/l.

 

[jayjay]

Well bloo, there were no negativeeffects that happened to the marine fish used in the tests and marine are alot more sensitive then most FW fish.

 

[Lynz781]

Just done a dipstick test on my tap water out of interest. Now recently my tap water has been tasting horrible plus its dead cloudy. So I've only been able to drink it once its been filtered. No nitrates anyway but acidic at pH 6.4

 

[wodesorel]

Are you sure it's not a false reading? I get a false reading of a little over 11 pH on water straight from the tap. Once Seachem Prime is added, the levels stabilize to 7.2 in about 30 seconds. They add a lot of funky chemical to drinking water, and those screw with the chemicals in the tests.

 

[Inchworm]

Well I said something about this earlier and it didn't go down well but i'll say it again. There has been nothing proven to happen to fish in waters with nitrate up to 100ppm but someone will say something most likely.

I don't need proof. Mine lies in the pudding. Well in a manner of speaking.
London tap water (the infamous Thames Water) often have nitrates up to around 50ppm (which in the region of legal limits I believe). Back in the time when I struggled with an internal filter and high stocking (yet perfectly within limits), my fish showed the signs of of nitrate / toxin levels building up and showing the strain. They just "looked" unwell unless I always performed my weekly 50% water changes. They were sluggish and lethargic and "moped around". After each water change and subsequent days (i.e. lower nitrates) they'd perk up and look much better.

Nothing else needed for me. On top of which has been reported and documented for donkeys years. Not to say that nothing needs to be questioned just because it's been a known fact for years, but there is proof.
Apart from that, many fish will only breed in extremely low nitrate levels. And well, there there's Discus.

They might survive in levels of 100ppm for a while. Thrive they won't. And pretty soon they'd become unwell and susceptible to diseases and all sorts. Die prematurely they will.

Need i say more ?

Well said, Bloo!

My own experience has also shown it to be true. When I was sick, a few months ago, I had to slack off on doing water changes and the nitrate level rose. The corys behavior overall behavior changed and the became somewhat lethargic. Now that I am back on my feet, and doing frequent big water changes, I can see the difference.

It's my understanding that in order for a scientific experiment to be considered "scientific," it has to be carried out under controlled conditions and be able to be replicated by others. Until this is done, it is not considered fact. This means that all other factors must be the same and other scientists must agree.

Since a home aquarium does not fit this model, IMHO, it's a mistake to take the results of a controlled experiment and try to apply them to it. There are just too many things that can go badly wrong. Since TFF is a forum for beginners, as well as experienced fishkeepers, I would not like the results of this experiment to be mistaken for good practice. Too many years of experience, by too many good fishkeepers, show it not to be the case.

 

[vix]

Whilst your own experiences are good and are of todays fish keeping ways, there are also old skool fish keepers who never did a test or a water change, i wonder what there results of nitrates where.

For instance my mother kept fish when i was very young, she cannot believe how much trouble i go to for my fish, the testing, the weekly water changes etc.

She never had a test kit, and never did a water change yet none of her fish ever died.

 

[jayjay]

People will next say we don't believe in gravity, it has been proven. Nitrate toxicity to five species of marine fish by Pierce, RH; Weeks, JM; and Prappas, JM reported in Journal of the World Aquaculture Society. Vol. 24, no. 1, pp. 105-107. 1993 is the paper to read for you Inchworm, if marine fish start to become affected at 100ppm and they are alot more sensitive. Do you think they were lying or something? You have a controlled environment with your tank, you control what goes in and what comes out. If you feed to much and don't clean up after your fish yes bad things will happen in the tank. If you clean the tank alot and feed as much as the fish need, your tank may do very well. Also it depends on what fish the person in question has, not everyone has cories.

I have said this to you already, low nitrates are good but not essential.

 

[Majjie]

Funnily enough, I was having a conversation about nitrates with the guy in one of my lfs's last weekend. It's not one I go in very often but it has a good reputation, the staff are always helpful and very knowledgeable about the fish. The tanks always look gorgeous - full of live plants for the community fishes. (I forget what it's called - it's at the Tall Trees Garden Centre at Bulcote, near Nottingham)

They never - or hardly ever - change the water in their tanks apparently and he said that he expects the levels of nitrate to be around 100 or higher. They never use tap water either - they have a big tank to collect rain water.

I've been struggling with some very resistant ich and he suggested that my frequent water changes wouldn't be helping the fish because of the extra stress it causes.

Now, I know that we've all learned to be wary of advice from staff at lfs's - but this was no pimply youth (in spite of the ... ummh ... lovely ponytail ) and he says he's been keeping fish for twenty years or so.

I wasn't entirely convinced but there's only one thing that you can be sure of ...... whatever question you ask about fish keeping you'll get a lot of contradictory advice.

If it has been shown that high levels of nitrate are not toxic, in a controlled experiment - then it is true - for those conditions. Trouble is there are just too many variables to be sure that it is true in your tank. Maybe - just maybe - nitrate toxicity is affected by the concentrations of other things in the water.

 

[Bloo]

Well said, Bloo!

Thanks

They never - or hardly ever - change the water in their tanks apparently and he said that he expects the levels of nitrate to be around 100 or higher. They never use tap water either - they have a big tank to collect rain water.

The have a big tank with rainwater they never use ?
And they top up with rainwater ? What is the level of Nitrate in that ? Non existent I expect.
Nitrates in those tank would be the result of massive overstocking (food - waste - nitrates - toxins).

Also understand they run on massive filtration - and unless he tested the water (which he doesn't seem to have done) - he really wouldn't know.

But most importantly - severe overstocking that results high nitrates are short term only in your lfs.
How often you do you not see (you're lucky if you haven't) crammed tanks with severely stressed looking fish covered in whitespot or fraying fins (finrot) - or a host of other diseases?

jayjay - I see you completely ignore any of my comments and experience over many many years. Yes, I currently have some cories, but for the vast majority I have always kept general (small to medium) community fish. I probably feed my fish less than most people here because I understand the result of overfeeding.

However please note: I speak from my personal experience and observations in the many tanks I've had over many years (in other words - merely from what I've personally observed and believe / know to be true). And as a result, do what I know is best for my fish

 

[Bloo]

oops double post

 

[Majjie]

They never - or hardly ever - change the water in their tanks apparently and he said that he expects the levels of nitrate to be around 100 or higher. They never use tap water either - they have a big tank to collect rain water.

The have a big tank with rainwater they never use ?
And they top up with rainwater ? What is the level of Nitrate in that ? Non existent I expect.
Nitrates in those tank would be the result of massive overstocking (food - waste - nitrates - toxins).

Also understand they run on massive filtration - and unless he tested the water (which he doesn't seem to have done) - he really wouldn't know.

But most importantly - severe overstocking that results high nitrates are short term only in your lfs.

How often you do you not see (you're lucky if you haven't) crammed tanks with severely stressed looking fish covered in whitespot or fraying fins (finrot) - or a host of other diseases?

Obviously, if they did lots of water changes then they wouldn't have enough rain water! They use it for topping up as you say. And no he doesn't test for nitrate - why would he if he believes it to be irrelevant? It was me that brought nitrate up. He was recommending fewer water changes - not just for the shop tanks - he doesn't change the water very often in his own tanks either.

I realise that the fish are only in the lfs tanks for a short while and yes - I have seen fish in an apalling state in lfs tanks - but not in this particular lfs. For all I know the other lfs's do change their water frequently

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong Bloo - Im just saying that this man is equally convinced of the opposite one