Tank

[CAC]

As some of you amy remember, a while ago i said that later this year i would be getting a bigger tank, possably to keep archers in, but i have recently turned my attention to rays, and im planning on getting a small ray tank....

The plan is, to keep a pair of Scobinas in the tank, for a couple of years, if they do end up getting too big, which i think they might...Any way, the idea would be a custom 48x30x18h tank, but i may possably stretch to 32" wide....

I just wanted to know What type of filteration i should/could use, and what models would i be looking at? I was thinking that some sort of Eheim external would do the job, but what sizes or models? Also, if it would end up being too much money for the tank etc. then would i have any options with a 4x2x2 tank, in terms of rays???

Also, i would be ahveing the tank upstairs, do you think that it would go through the floor? I live in a 1927 house, so i think we have the old joists, so i think they should be strong enough...?

Thanks alot, Mikey

 

[CFC]

A 4x2x2 tank would be the bare minimum for keeping a pair of P.scobina provided they were the only fish in the tank, however i would have to caution you that they would not be the best rays to start out with as they can be a little delicate, not to mention difficult and expensive to obtain.

A decent sized eheim external would be perfectly adequate filtration, think along the lines of a classic 2217 or a pro 2 2028.

A tank this size should be ok upstairs as long as it is placed close to a suporting wall and covering as many joists as possible. I would risk anything larger than this though.


If you are serious about keeping rays then you would be best to start with a pair of captive bred motoros or orbygini's and then sell them on when they outgrow the tank before trying the more delicate species.

 

[CAC]

Oh ok thanks alot CFC, i think that i will be able to get a 48x32x24 afterall...
If the floor boads go on way, lets say _______ like that, then would the joists go l l l l l like that?
Im presumeing that they would, because that make sense....
If i got a pair of motoros then how long could they stay in that size tank?
How long would they be able to stay in a 4x2x2? And what about tankmates for both size tanks?

Mikey

 

[CFC]

With such a small tank as a 4x2x2 you couldnt really have any tankmates, with a 48x30x24 you could prehaps get away with some middle/upper water dwelling fish like a flag tail, a pair of severums or a few silver dollars ( a few examples, thats not an exhausted list) but that really would be it, rays need all the area they can get. They could stay in the tank for a year or two depending on growth rate.

I really wouldnt like to recomend keeping a 48x30x24 tank upstairs on a wood floor, thats 150 US gallons of water which is a hell of a lot of weigt, even the average bath tub only holds around 80 to 100 gallons when full and the bathroom will have additional joists added for the weight.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

no comments about the fish but personally there's no way I'd put a tank that big upstairs. Don't use a bath as a guideline these are planned for in the building of your house and extra support is put in for them, this hasn't been done for your fishtank! Might be a good idea to pm Fillet O Fish who's a structural engineer, sure if you gave him a few more details about the construction of your house and the location of the tank then he could help let you know if it would be ok or not. When it boils down to it though without having a professional visit your house and look at it then I think it's a massive gamble to take.

 

[CAC]

CFC, i would have a 48x32x18, its the same voume as a 4x2x2 (atleast the PFK calulator says so, even though i though a 48x30x18 would be the same as a 4x2x2 but anyway lol.) which is 120US, but thats spread out over a larger area than a 4x2x2....
So in that size tank then could i have any tankmates???
Thanks for the advice Wiggle, i have actually PMed him, but he hasnt responded...
Thanks alot.

 

[CFC]

By loosing the height youve lost the space for tankmates so you are back to just having the rays.

 

[CAC]

Oh right, i dont think i would want to risk such a big tank though....What about a bottom dwelling fish, like a Bichir or a catfish or something...
Could i not even have any silver dollars in that deep tank?
Do you know if im correct about the flooring in my 2nd post?

Thanks alot, Mikey

 

[CFC]

I really wouldnt like to make an unqualified statement on the floor strength, personally i wouldnt risk it, the best thing to do is consult a structural engineer.

There isnt enough floor space for the rays to share with another bottom dweller, its not fair on the rays or the bichir/catfish. you could try upper dwelling tankmates in the shorter tank, but without the extra 6" it cuts down the escape space should the rays decide they look tasty.

 

[CAC]

What type of things would you surrgest?
I know of "normal" sized fish like ABFs and hachet fish that live allmost primeairilly on the surrface, but they are obvuiously too small, and i dont really know about bigger things....

I might ring up someone (well i will) and ask how much it would cost them to come out and have a look...But apparently each litre weight a kilo, so its allmost half a tonne in such a small space...

Thanks alot.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I might ring up someone (well i will) and ask how much it would cost them to come out and have a look...But apparently each litre weight a kilo, so its allmost half a tonne in such a small space...

yup a litre does weigh approx a kg. and remember that's half a tonne before you add the weight of the glass, stand, equipment, decor etc etc etc

generally speaking the joists do run the opposite way to your floorboards, this may not always be the case though so don't rely on it.

Like you said, consult an expert.

 

[cane76]

i have a 70 gallon and 30 gallon almost sitting next to each other on my secound floor but i agree get someone out just to make sure your floor can take the weight.i would be interested to know how much they charge you to come and do this.your house is quite old and i hear they were built a lot stronger back then so good luck

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i have a 70 gallon and 30 gallon almost sitting next to each other on my secound floor but i agree get someone out just to make sure your floor can take the weight.i would be interested to know how much they charge you to come and do this.your house is quite old and i hear they were built a lot stronger back then so good luck

i work for leeds city council architects department, an 'average' charge out rate for one of our structural engineers is about 35-40 an hr ....... and remember you won't just be paying for the time they're in your building, fi you put in an enquiry you'd be paying for the time the person is completing any appropriate forms, calculations they do back at the office, etc etc.

a lot of old houses were built stronger, but it may have been done on dodgy foundations, there could have been subsidance that's affected the structure of the house, could have had termites in your joists! all sorts really.

 

[CFC]

Old houses have another factor to take into account, and that is movement. My house was built in 1902 and there is not a level floor in the house just from the natural movement of the materials over the last 104 years which made siting the 150 gallon tank in the front room interesting there is a 1" difference in the height of the water from one end of the tank to the other Any movement in the house will be exagerated upstairs so you may have to pack out the base of the stand to get things level.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Old houses have another factor to take into account, and that is movement. My house was built in 1902 and there is not a level floor in the house just from the natural movement of the materials over the last 104 years which made siting the 150 gallon tank in the front room interesting there is a 1" difference in the height of the water from one end of the tank to the other Any movement in the house will be exagerated upstairs so you may have to pack out the base of the stand to get things level.

yup we have that in our living roo, got a 60g tank on one side of the fireplace and an 80g on the other they both slope different ways, so the fireplace is higher than both sides of the house. it's just bizarre! we've pulled up the floorboards in there though to check underneath, must admit it had me very worried when we first noticed it!