Tank Severely Acidified -- Help Fast!

[This Younger Spouse]

Hey all:

We've been without a test kit after just taming the ammonia spike in my 55-gallon, because we returned an API master kit with expired chemicals. Just picked up the Nutrafin (Hagen) master kit and tested the 55. Holy ****!!

pH = 5
Ammonia = .6 mg/L (which according to the Hagen conversion chart is essentially no toxicity based on the pH)
Nitrite = 0.0
Nitrate = 5.0 ppm

I'll refer you to another TFF thread I started over an ammonia spike in my 55-gallon in case you want some background. It's here.

Couple very quick questions. About that pH, our tap water tested at 6.6 just now with the Nutrafin kit, which is how it's always tested with the API kit. My 20 gallon also tested at 6.6. I ran the test twice on the 55, taking water from different points in the tank each time, and got 5.0 each time.

Sand/gravel substrate, several rocks that have been in for quite some time, a number of plants, all aquatic, all bought at LFSs. The sand is silica, the gravel and rocks either silica (quartzes) or basalt. The one piece of wood is well weathered, about the size of a pigeon, and came from Lake Superior (freshwater) a couple weeks ago. In case you haven't looked at the link to the other thread, this 55 only has 2 small firemouths, two small Jack Dempseys, a BN pleco and Synodontis cat.

Should I do an immediate 90 percent water change to get the pH back up, or would that shock the fish quite a lot?

I also have a question on the Nutrafin ammonia test chart. Even had my pH been at 6.6, which is what we get out of the tap and what that tank had tested at before, an ammonia reading of .6 mg/L, the chart shows a conversion to 0.0 ammonia. Am I on track with that? I've studied the kit directions thoroughly, but really want to be sure, as it's the first time we've used this kit.

Thanks!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I am far from an expert, but I would NOT do a massive water change just now. Certain fish can actually thrive in such acidic water, and a massive water change right now could cause to fast a change in your pH which would be more detrimental to the fish than the actual pH value.


What was the pH the last time you checked it? What was it then?

What is the hardness, specifically the kH value?


I would think that the best course of action is one of three alternatives:
One, start doing a series of smaller water changes (20% or less) to slowly raise the pH back up to your tap water levels.
Two, add a bit of crushed coral to your tank to slowly raise the pH and increase the buffering ability of your water.
Three, a little bit of both.


The water being so acidic is actually a benefit right now, since lower pH water forms ammonium, not ammonia, so that the fish aren't suffering as much from the ammonia. A series of water changes can both lower the ammonia and slowly raise the pH, but I think it should be done slowly so as to not shock the fish with a rapid change.

 

[This Younger Spouse]

I am far from an expert, but I would NOT do a massive water change just now. Certain fish can actually thrive in such acidic water, and a massive water change right now could cause to fast a change in your pH which would be more detrimental to the fish than the actual pH value.


First, what fish are currently in the tank?

Second, what was the pH the last time you checked it? What was it then?

Third, what is the hardness, specifically the kH value?


I would think that the best course of action is one of three alternatives:
One, start doing a series of smaller water changes (20% or less) to slowly raise the pH back up to your tap water levels.
Two, add a bit of crushed coral to your tank to slowly raise the pH and increase the buffering ability of your water.
Three, a little bit of both.

Thanks!

It tested at pH 6.5 when last I tested it about a week ago.

In the tank are two small firemouths, two small Jack Dempseys, a BN pleco and Synodontis cat.

I don't know the hardness because we don't have a test kit for that. I also don't know how hardness factors in. I always thought soft water was that below a pH of 7 and hard water was that above 7.

 

[primagen]

acidic water has a pH of less than 7, basic is a pH of more than 7 (7 is neutral). i'd add some spoonfuls of crushed coral in the filter to increase the buffering capacity (KH i think), which will provide resistance to pH swings. slowly raise the pH of the tank water to the tap pH through a series of small water changes over the next few days, as suggested. i'd also increase aeration and surface agitation in the tank. i think that helps prevent the pH from crashing too.

 

[This Younger Spouse]

OK, TOS had some API multi test strips hid away, so I swished one in the 55. GH was 0, KH about 20 mg/L.

We have a small bit of crushed coral (couple tablespoons full) and some orange-sized hunks of actual (long dead) coral pulled out of the gulf of Mexico this spring. I wish I'd have known about the pH when we drove 110 miles one way to the LFS today, because I could have picked up a bag of crushed coral there. But of course we had to get the new test kit home in order to do that test that showed the acidified pH.

Endless, this merry-go-round, eh?

So what are your thoughts about adding the coral chunks and crushed stuff?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

That can sometimes be the case... the reason I ask is because the higher the hardness (kH, actually) the better the water's capacity to buffer (maintain a more stable pH).


The pH value is related to the concentrations of hydrogen ions (H+) compared to hydroxide ions (OH-, or hydroxyls). A pH of 5.0 has 100 times more hydrogen ions than hydroxide ions. A pH of 6.0 has 10 times more hydrogen ions than hydroxides, and 7.0 means that the concentrations of hydrogen and hydroxides are the same. Increasing the buffering capacity allows compounds in the water - many times carbonates are used to neutralize an acid by bonding with the hydrogen ions, so that they are no longer free in the water. Once the available carbonates (or other buffering chemicals) are used up, the pH can then drop as more hydrogen ions build up.

 

[This Younger Spouse]

acidic water has a pH of less than 7, basic is a pH of more than 7 (7 is neutral). i'd add some spoonfuls of crushed coral in the filter to increase the buffering capacity (KH i think), which will provide resistance to pH swings. slowly raise the pH of the tank water to the tap pH through a series of small water changes over the next few days, as suggested. i'd also increase aeration and surface agitation in the tank. i think that helps prevent the pH from crashing too.

That can sometimes be the case... the reason I ask is because the higher the hardness (kH, actually) the better the water's capacity to buffer (maintain a more stable pH).


The pH value is related to the concentrations of hydrogen ions (H+) compared to hydroxide ions (OH-, or hydroxyls). A pH of 5.0 has 100 times more hydrogen ions than hydroxide ions. A pH of 6.0 has 10 times more hydrogen ions than hydroxides, and 7.0 means that the concentrations of hydrogen and hydroxides are the same. Increasing the buffering capacity allows compounds in the water - many times carbonates are used to neutralize an acid by bonding with the hydrogen ions, so that they are no longer free in the water. Once the available carbonates (or other buffering chemicals) are used up, the pH can then drop as more hydrogen ions build up.

I knew about the pH and where on the scale it swings from acidic to basic. But I didn't know anything about how hardness/softness impacts pH.

I'll definitely add what crushed coral we have to the filter, and will put the larger chunks in the tank. Based on your and eaglesaquarium's advice, I'll start right in with the water changes, too.

Thanks to both of you!

 

[primagen]

i'd add the crushed coral to a filter bag and put it inside the filter. the coral chunks would probably raise the pH too much too fast, so you don't want that.

 

[This Younger Spouse]

i'd add the crushed coral to a filter bag and put it inside the filter. the coral chunks would probably raise the pH too much too fast, so you don't want that.

Thanks again. I've got filter media (with the carbon removed) in the filter now, so it'll be a snap to drop in the crushed coral. Also, I'll let that work overnight and see if there's a noticeable change in the morning.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I would add the coral to the filter. Not too much at first. The lower the pH the more it will dissolve and increase the buffering capacity (but also the pH, which can be problematic). You are going to want to do this slowly.

 

[This Younger Spouse]

I would add the coral to the filter. Not too much at first. The lower the pH the more it will dissolve and increase the buffering capacity (but also the pH, which can be problematic). You are going to want to do this slowly.

Two tablespoons is what I've got. I'm thinking that won't be overdoing it. If you think that's too much, easily fixed. Just say so.

Can anyone help with one of the other original questions -- whether I'm using the ammonia toxicity chart on the back of the Nutrafin ammonia test booklet correctly?

 

[karin]

Not m my area of expertise, but pH crashes happen sometimes when a tank is cycling. I would think that you first have to figure out what is going on to drive the pH down especially this the tap is at 6.6 If this is related to something else and that rights it self then the pH could swing the other way. I do know that pH stability is more important than the actual number (of course within some fish compatible parameters). You might post this to tropical discussion to get more coverage by people who can explain what I have actually experienced above.

 

[This Younger Spouse]

Karin, I'm definitely concerned about the cause. Treating symptoms is sometimes necessary in emergencies, but I'd rather get to the root of it.

As for posting a duplicate thread in Tropical Discussion, I don't know if that's OK on TFF. Many forums don't allow them.

 

[karin]

I think it would be fine to repost. My experience is that this section is more for disease than for water chemistry .... although often the two are related. You could also search pH crash in both the New Freshwater Tank and the Tropical discussion sections.

Good luck

 

[StandbySetting]

Your KH is incredibly low which is why the water is poor at buffering acidic compounds, as others have suggested adding a bag of crushed coral or coral sand in a filter sock will increase your KH+GH, and ultimately the PH.