Tank Cycling And Ottos With Bettas

[tophat665]

Greetings,
Read through the pinned threads, and still have some questions on my mind.

I'm setting up a nice 5.5 planted tank for a betta. Gravel and fluorite substrate. Three hunks of rose quartz in an iwagumi configuration. Rotala, Ludwegia, Crypt retrospiralis, dwarf hairgrass, and java moss for plants. Fertilizing .5ml Flourish and 1 ml Flourish Excel weekly with 50% water change, with an additional 1/2 ml Flourish Excel daily. 50w heater (ambient in my house is 64ºF over the winter) and a duetto 50 in-tank filter, dialed down low, and with the outflow pointed at the glass (minimal current). 12w tropic sun bulb in an all glass 16" strip light, and a full versa-top(raised just enough to let the cords out). Filled to ~1" of the top. Water parameters I have not checked yet, but my tap water has 2 KH, 14 GH, ~7.2 pH. I treat it with double doses of AmQuel+ and NovAqua+ (Lots and lots of Chlorine and Chloramine in the water - the double up on the water conditioners takes care of that.)

So - right now I have two male fancy guppies in there, feeding them flake once daily by way of cycling the tank.

Is it really necessary to do this for a Betta? I suspect it's beneficial in any case, but is it a must as with tetras and cories and he like, but with the 100% water changes some folks do with a betta, I can't see how it's possible that tanks stay cycled.

The tank is for my 4 year old to call hers (I'll be tending it, but she'll pick the betta), and she's starting to get antsy about getting her fishie.

Here's a picture of the tank as is:

If I did replace the guppies with a betta before the tank was fully cycled, and kept on with 50% weekly water changes, would the tank stay cycled?

Now the original plan vis tankmates was to put in one gold or blue mystery snail, but I'd rather have plants than snails (and I surely have some pond snails and MTS in there already). Would a Mystery Snail wreck my plants?

Failing the snail, I would want to put in 3 Ottos for my cleaning crew. If they can cohabit with dwarf puffers, I suspect they will downright enjoy the relatively gentle company of a betta. I would surely wait 3 months before adding these little guys in, and I would toss in an algae tablet daily for them (which has kept the ones in my 20 fat and happy so far.)

Now, that leaves plenty of tank capacity for me to think about dwarf or pygmy cories. About 5. Would that be workable? They stay an inch or less, and would be the very thing for keeping my hairgrass from clogging up. (I'm going to get some more and some planting tweezers and try to get a little lawn going.)

Last thing: The tank is right in front of a window (I'm pressed for space). I would like to put a nice plain black background on it. That gives a little reflection, but neither clear nor bright. Failing that, I'd print out a picture of an overgrown tank and pasted that back there to give an illusion of depth.

What say you all?
Is cycling necessary?
Would a mystery snail eat my plants?
Would ottos and/or pygmy cories get along with a betta?
Black, patterned, or no background?

 

[luque]

with my experience i can answer one; i have a betta with ottos and they are fine so i would go ahead with that not too sure about the guppies though

 

[tophat665]

with my experience i can answer one; i have a betta with ottos and they are fine so i would go ahead with that not too sure about the guppies though

Thanks. Guppies and Bettas are a no-no - that I know. I use guppies for cycling tanks, though. They would be removed before I put a betta in there. (I'd put them in my QT tank to keep that cycled.)

 

[zoekin8yg]

Is cycling necessary? Yes if you are going to have a filter you need to cycle it. I never do fish cycling always fishless.


Would ottos and/or pygmy cories get along with a betta? Ususally both are fine, depends on the fish in question, some bettas wont tollerate any tank mates.


Black, patterned, or no background? Depends on the fish, some will get stressed by bright colours and flare and them all the time and wear themselves out

 

[heatmisr]

Are you currently cycling the tank, or is it already completely cycled? If you are in the process of cycling the tank, you shouldn't be using Amquel+ as a water conditioner. It removes ammonia, nitrites and nitrates in addition to the chlorine and chloramines. Your tank will never cycle because it needs the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates to do so.

 

[starrynightxxi]

otos should be fine with a betta providing the betta does not take offense to their presence but i hear they do poorly in tanks that are not established (ie: have been running for 6+ months). Also they are very fragile and often starve to death due to their sensitivities to being transported so if you do get some, pick out healthy specimens that appear to be eating/well-fed.

As has been mentioned, if you have a tank with a filter, cycling is necessary. The reason people with bettas do 100% water changes is because bettas are often kept in small tanks with no filters.

 

[lljdma06]

otos should be fine with a betta providing the betta does not take offense to their presence but i hear they do poorly in tanks that are not established (ie: have been running for 6+ months). Also they are very fragile and often starve to death due to their sensitivities to being transported so if you do get some, pick out healthy specimens that appear to be eating/well-fed.

As has been mentioned, if you have a tank with a filter, cycling is necessary. The reason people with bettas do 100% water changes is because bettas are often kept in small tanks with no filters.

If you have a tank that is densly planted from the onset, that is 50-75% of the substrate covered with fastgrowing weeds, then IMO cycling is pointless and not necessary. The plants will be more than happy to consume any NH4 produced. That being said, it is better to wait to get otos until the tank is more established, though I have bent this rule often because planted tank tend to create this mature environment a little quicker. Otos are actually quite hardy if you do not purchase fish that have recently been added to the store's stock. Fish that have been in the store for at least 2 weeks and show signs of eating, are your best bets.

Off topic, but 12W over 5.5g isn't a lot of light. Nanos such as you have are a bit different with regard to lighting. My 8g has 24W and that is still considered low-light, and I don't dose CO2 or ferts. WPG breaks down with smaller tanks. You may want to rethink dosing excel and flourish. You may not get fast enough plant growth to warrant their use. Just for now, let your fish waste take care of the plants' needs. Ludwigia tends to like softer water than your parameters sugest and may struggle. The rotala should do pretty well as will the moss. You've got a pretty good start there, but you could have more plants. There's always room for more plants, especially in the beginning.

Have fun, I kind of like the rocks there, a bit different from your normal iwagumi setups.

llj

 

[tophat665]

Thanks everybody. The filter is definitely cycled. I've been running it in my QT tank with Guppies and any/or any new purchases for the last several months. (There's two other filters on the QT too - an HOB and a Sponge. This one was just in there to keep it cycled). The tank as a whole ought to be cycled. The substrate was pulled directly from established tanks. Haven't checked yet, though. This weekend.

I understand that ottos prefer an established tank. I keep mine in quarantine for two weeks with algae pellets, then, if the tank they're going to isn't ready, I have a number of other tanks that are established in which they can be housed while some algae builds up.

I figure the tank won't be ready for cories until May or so, and no ottos until late summer. That'll let me keep an eye out for some good ones.

Last unanswered question, then - would a mystery snail be an invitation to a plant holocaust?

(There are some other things to clear up too, but they all have to do with the peculiarities of a planted nano, so I'll take them over to the planted tank section.)

 

[starrynightxxi]

mystery snails can be a gamble because you don't know exactly what you're getting species-wise and there are some that get baseball sized. As for eating plants, I think there are species marked as Mystery Snails that will enjoy the salad bar and others that will ignore live plants unless there is no other option. I'm not really well-read on the topic of snails, but this site has a lot of info Apple Snails. Also it might be worthwhile to check out the amphibian/invertebrates forum.