Swordtail w/fungus, shredded fins

[Polardbear]

I've got a hi fin lyretail female swordie that is looking terrible. I got her mid December and she's pretty much been having problems since a few days before Christmas. I first noticed that her and one of her friends had a bit of white fluffy fungus on their tails so I isolated them and treated for 4 days with Jungle Fungus Clear Tank Buddies (nitrofurazone, furazolidone & potassium dichromate).

This partially cleared them up but not completely so I did a 25% water change and gave them a second dose. After 4 days they still had small traces of white fluff and shredded tails. I moved them to a second quarentine tank with fresh water (no meds) and waited 24 hours and then dosed them with ampicillin (wide spectrum antibiotic). I gave them the appropriate amount of ampicillin every other day for 5 days (per package instructions) and that seemed to take care of it, no more white fuzzies and fins appeared to be healing up.

They both were lively and active and eating well throughout this whole course of treatment.

I've been doing 20% water changes every day on their tank for about a week now and they've both been looking good until Saturday. Saturday I noticed the lyretail female was hanging around the top of the tank at the filter return and not real interested in food. Sunday was pretty much the same except she seemed a little more lively for brief periods.

This morning when I looked at her she has white fuzzy patches again on her fins and sides. ) She's not hanging out at the filter return today, swimming around normally and even ate breakfast. But the fungus is worse than it was before. Her friend looks like she might have a small trace of fungus on her back but is acting her normal self (cruising around at full speed, doing silly swordtail antics and refusing to stop and turn sideways so I can get a good look at her).

Any suggestions for what I should try now? I'm not sure if I should try another course of ampicillin or try something else.

My tank readings are ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20, temp is 78 degrees (F).

 

[WILDER]

You could do a salt bath on the afected fish it sounds like columnaris with the patches on the sides of the fish, also add some salt to the tank if you have no scaless fish, also you will need to treat again with an anitibiotics treatment, for a salt bath it is one tablesppon of aquarium salt to a gallon, for the tank one tablespoon to 5 gal.

 

[Polardbear]

Please...don't say the "C" word. I went through a bought of that a few months ago and lost a bunch of my babies. But I think you're probably right.

I've got salt in the tank already (1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons).

Should I try the ampicillin again or is there an antibiotic that's more effective for columnaris?

Attaching a couple photos of her - the photos make her look a lot worse off than she is.

 

[WILDER]

Here is a link for you.
http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm

 

[Polardbear]

Thanks Wilder.

 

[Polardbear]

So after reading the link Wilder posted I decided to try a course of Kanamycin. As I was getting ready to leave to go to the LFS I discovered that my hi fin pineapple male swordie had suicided by wedging himself into window of my aquarium castle. He managed to wedge himself nose first into the window and got his top fin inside but then couldn't get the rest of his body in and because his long flowing hi fin was inside he couldn't back out. Poor little guy, he was one of my favorites. Needless to say the castle has been removed.

3 LFS's later, I finally found some Kanamycin. Feeling quite sad about the loss of Goofy the pineapple male, I decided to take a look and see if they had any interesting Swordies. Well, my day brightened up quite a bit when much to my surprise I found a pair of black swordtails that were happy and perky and looked like they might actually be healthy! And then in the next tank over they had a batch of hi fin lyretail swordies. I was admiring them but they were reds and I already have 5 of them. As the LFS person was netting out my blacks I suddenly spotted a lyretail that I had overlooked - a gorgeous green wag hi fin lyretail female! Boy did that make my day!

My 2 little fuzzy girls have been moved back to the 5 gallon sick ward tank and have started their new medication. Can't really tell if the one is feeling worse or if she's just pouting about the tank move. I'm also slowly increasing the amount of salt in their tank.

My 3 new babies seem to be settling into their spacious 26 gallon quarentine tank. It's kindof funny to watch them as they slowly explore the tank, they stay in a tight little group and look around as if to say "hey! where'd all those other obnoxious fish go?"

 

[WILDER]

Put some aquarium salt in the main tank if you have no scaless fish with having the columnaris.

 

[Polardbear]

Update on my 2 fuzzy female swordtails - this morning the hi fin female was actively swimming and eating and showed no white fuzzies. The lyretail female however was looking a lot worse and was just laying on the bottom of the tank. Since the hi fin girl was being so active (and annoying the other girl) I moved her over to a spare 10 gallon tank and have given her another dose of the kanamycin. She is happy, perky and her normal self (swimming loops).

I left the lyretail by herself in the 5 gallon hoping that she might perk up by this afternoon. When I came home in the afternoon she was still laying on the bottom, listless and dull. I decided to switch her medication to the ampicillin since she seemed to be getting worse.

Evicted my crowntail betta Jake from his 10 gallon tank and moved the lyretail into it with fresh water (salt and conditioner added). Added the ampicillin to this fresh tank and about half an hour later she was actively swimming around the tank.

However the white fuzzy spot that I assumed was the return of columnaris started changing. It suddenly started elongating until it looked like a 1.5 inch long white thread trailing off her gill on one side. She swam around and as I watched it kept getting longer until it was streaming behind her longer than her tail. Then it appeared to drop off, leaving just a tiny white stump coming out of her gill. As I watched for a few more minutes it started elongating again into a thread. She has another of the white stubby things on her tail fin that looks like it protrudes out of her fin about 1/16 inch. She also has what looks like a sore forming that looks kind of pussy on the side of her belly. And when I first moved her to the 10 gallon she looked like she was developing dropsy as her scales were beginning to pinecone out on her sides and underbelly. She's been on the ampicillin about 45 minutes now and the pineconing seems to be smoothing out. No more white threads oozing out of her but she still has the 2 little white stubby things on her gill and tail fin and the sore on her side doesn't look quite as pussy. She's a lot more active now than she's been for a couple of days and no clamped fins or shimmying. The change in her since switching to the ampicillin was incredibly quick.

Could the white things be some sort of parasite instead of columnaris as we originally thought? In my past experience with columnaris the fuzzy patches were usually roundish mounds of cottony looking stuff not stubby little stick like protrusions.

Attaching a photo to try and show the white things, it's not perfectly in focus, but the best I could do right now.

Any new thoughts on treatment?

Also - cories have been moved out of the main tank leaving only swordtails in it. Did a 40% water change and added aquarium salt.

 

[Polardbear]

Just got home from a carpet cleaning job and the lyretail female seems a little more active than before. Everything else is the same as my last update. Offered her some flake food but she wasn't interested. Think I might try a salt bath in a while.

O.T. - Think I might try a salt bath for myself as well...my back is killing me from shampooing my friends carpet. I've been working on my friends carpet for 9 hours today, I'm about 3/4 of the way done and it's only a 2 room apartment. I can barely move and I still need to do water changes in 3 of my tanks...where is the Water Change Fairy when you need her?

 

[Inchworm]

Hi Polardbear

I've come to truly hate bacterial infections because they can be so persistent and devastating to the fish.

In addition to Columnaris, there are many other types of bacteria that behave the same way. These bad bacteria are always present in a tank, but only effect a fish when they have suffered from some kind of stress and have become weakened and susceptible to it.

Some things that can stress a fish to that extent include overcrowding, infrequent water changes, high nitrites, sudden temperature changes, uneaten food in the tank, low oxygen content in the water or aggressive tankmates. Some of these things occur during shipping and/or at the lfs, so new fish often appear well when you buy them, but come down sick soon afterward.

You have used good medication to treat your fish, but it's possible that you have not used them long enough to entirely wipe out the bacteria. If this is the case, you might have developed a strain of bacteria that is resistant to antibiotics as a result. It's important to know this, not just for these fish, but in case you have a future breakout. This resistant strain could remain in your tank and be the cause of future problems, but only if your fish have been weakened by other causes.

Continue the treatment if it seems to be working, but be sure to treat your fish for a longer period of time than seems necessary to be sure they are totally cured. I would also suggest lowering the temperature of the treatment tank to no more than 75 degrees F. and adding an airstone to increase the oxygen level in the water. These two things will make it more difficult for the bacteria to thrive and reproduce and will help your fish.

While using antibiotics, do not add anything else, such as salt or MelaFix to the water. Just be sure to keep the tank clean and fresh with frequent water changes. Re-medicate as necessary.

If this doesn't work, even after you have exceeded the recommended dosage of the antibiotic, you might want to try an old fashioned remedy--the salt dip. This is actually a bath in concentrated salt water for a short period of time. I use one tsp. salt to 2 cups of tank water for this. I'll explain more, if necessary, but in the meanwhile, I hope you have good success with the meds you are now using.

 

[Polardbear]

Thanks for your suggestions Inchworm.

The treatment tanks have air stones however the only way I can lower the temperatures to 75 degrees or less would be to turn on the AC for the house. Right now I'm not running the heater for the house or the heaters in the tanks and my water in the main tank won't drop below 78 and most of the time is at 80. The treatment tanks seem to stay around 76 to 78 degrees. The room temperature is staying between 74 and 76 degrees.

I did give the lyretail female a salt bath tonight using Wilder's suggestion of 1 tablespoon salt in 1 gallon of water. Left her in it for 15 minutes and then returned her to her tank. After the salt bath she looked a lot better - her scales were normal looking and not sticking out like they were earlier. It helped the sore on her side a lot to. The little white things are still on her gill and tail fin. Still no interest in food.

I think I'll try some more salt baths tomorrow, I read somewhere that I can do about 4 a day. Does that sound correct? I'm also going to continue treating her with the ampicillin since she was so much more responsive to it. Her tail and anal fins are in shreds, will the salt baths help those any?

The other female, the hi fin girl, who has now been named "Lupe" will continue on the Kanamycin treatment. The package for the Kanamycin is a little vauge on how long to use it for, all it says is dosage may be repeated in 24 hours with a 25%-50% water change. She's had 2 doses so far so should I keep dosing her for a few more days? She's doing great, no fuzzies, eating and swimming in loops with perky upright fins all the time. She's also very pregnant and it's been 30 days since her last babies so she should be having more soon. So that makes me a little concerned about keeping her on the antibiotics for to much longer.

 

[Angry_Platy]

I hope your fish is OK. I have been following this thread.

It is great that you have detailed everything so well including pictures. IMHO this should be pinned for others to easy access.

 

[WILDER]

With the antibiotic treatment you might have stood a chance with dropsy, but watch her as the last stage of dropsy is pinecombing, antibiotics can take a while to kick in, could you get a strand of the white stingy thing and have it tested at your lfs to make sure it isn'nt a parasite, salt baths some do them every two hours but that can stress the fish to much, i would do three a day,also parsites hate salt, good luck.

 

[Polardbear]

The lyretail is still hanging in there this morning. Still not eating but was happy to see me this morning, came right to the glass and wiggled at me. Going to give her a water change, salt bath and another dose of ampicillin in a little bit.

Attaching 2 more pictures so that you all can see the extent of fin damage.

Photo from this morning -

Photo of her still healthy sister, originally you could not tell these two apart -

 

[WILDER]

that is bad, yes carry on with the salt baths, good luck nice fish.