Sumps and Overflows

[andywg]

Hmm, looking for some advice here.

I am in the process of inheriting an 85 gallon tank (UK - about 100 Gallons US) and would like to eventually set it up as a reef tank (the dimesions are 6' X 18" X 18").

I have resigned myself to saving for a sizeable protein skimmer and some metal halides (thankfully the shallow depth allow for 150W, yes?) and would also like to put a sump in place to allow for greater stability and a way to hide some of the equipment.

The problem I have is that I can't find a resource that adequatley describes to me the ways available of getting water into the sump, how to filter it down there (I plan to use a fair amount of live rock so hopefully this filtration will be secondary) and getting it back up. I understand the principle of drilling but am not prepared to do it myelf and transporting the tank to someone who can is a nightmare, therefore I am really looking at the alternatives thereof. I have done some research on overflows but am not too clear on their function and operation.

Any help would be gratefully received.

As a final question, as I have a fair amount of experience with freshwater I plan to keep tha tank as that while saving for the marine equipment, how will a sump affect any freshwater setup?

Again, thanks to anyone who answers

Andy

 

[Navarre]

I have never used an overflow system but they basically work on a syphon principle. Whilst this works fine 99% of the time, i always worry about that 1% when a powercut might occur or some other hiccup throws a curveball your way. then the syphon might stop and you will find the sump dried out as the pump has emptied the water into the main tank. (Probably overflowing it). Or worst still, the return pump stops and the syphon doesnt Depending where the intack pipe is, this could mean it emptying the entire tank on into the sump and thus onto the floor.

I know its very rare for these to fail but its something i would prefer to keep clear of. Drilling is by far the safest option.

 

[andywg]

Thanks for the reply,

Don't get me wrong, I understand the siphoning principle (hence drain from the top), and I understand that drilling is probably the easiest (were it not fot the 2 flights of stairs from my door to the ground - thankyou council for my concrete floor! ).

My problem with drilling is I'm not too sure of how to go about it myself. I seem to recall reading somewhere that if you make a small slip while drilling glass it can be very messy. However, I'm sure you can see the problems of carting about a 6 foot tank up and down narrow council stairways to someone who can drill.

Also what size hole would I be looking at for a tank that size (plus a sump of say, what ... 15 - 20 gallons?).

Finally, Navarre, I know you use natural solutions wherever possible. While I would love to say I plan those, I don't think I can, therefore, what sort of filtration (other than the ubiquitous protein skimmer and live rock) would be of use in the sump?

thanks again for your time,

Andy

 

[Navarre]

Although i have never drilled a tank myself, i have atucally witnessed it being done. It is actually not as frightening as it seems. Just keep the drill bit cool with water and a stea\dy pressure. Nothing too fast and it slowly grinds away.

I know of a place that hires out the drills in my area, i can send you the details to see if they will mail you the drills (i think they do this).

My tank has 2 mini wiers but if you didnt feel confident enough to creat 2 holes then a single hole in the base of the tank would be fine. You could make a lager wier for this (corner one probably).

I have 32mm pipes on each hole so as long as the hole is drilled slightly larger than this then it will fit easily. Just silicon the pipe securely and it will be fine.

As for the sump...
Not only does this give extra water volume (always a good thing) it also means you can hide unsightly equipment away and out of view fro the main tank.

You can place the followinf in ther efor filtration.
Mineral mud with cauerpa (or any other form of macro algea)
Mangroves
Liverock
Deep Sand Base


There are many combinations of these types and they can all be used in conjunction with each other to certain degrees.

Is there any here that you like the look of or any you feel you wont be able to work with ?

 

[Great Lakes]

Note. You cannot drill the bottom if it is tempered, as many are. If you are not sure, you can drill a hole through the back which works almost as well.

Please don't use a siphon overflow.

Yes, mine works fantastic 99% of the time. But this leaves three days a year that it loses siphon. Luckily I have been home everytime it has happened.

Plus, you can buy a drill and drill bit for what it costs for a quality overflow box.

I am looking for a new tank myself right now, and won't touch one if it isn't reef ready.

GL

 

[ste2k3]

Hi I am a tank builder by trade and as long as you have the correct equipment do do it, its not that hard, that said, It would be best to get someone round to do so. If there is a shop local which will drill tanks, just ask them to come out to you rather that moving the tank? We use a water cooled drill which has a rubber seal round the bit so the water pours out from the middle of the bit and the bit is in about 1" of water most of the time. we charge about £10 a hole so its not that expensive compared to an overflow box.

The simlest way of setting up a sump system is to have a corner/centre weir in the tank which is water tight and with a combe on top - surface skimming. then have a tank connector through the base of the tank and have a stand pipe to the surface. Then have this going to the sump. in the event of a powercut, you will lose a maximum of around 1" of the tank water into the sump so account for 2" and that should easily cover it. Just double check that the sump will catch the lost water by turning the pump off once its runing just to be on the safe side.

Any more questions, just ask.

ste

Just a note:

Note. You cannot drill the bottom if it is tempered, as many are. If you are not sure, you can drill a hole through the back which works almost as well.

quite right, I'v drilled juwel tanks which are tempered and it is very hard and can crack although sometimes it can be done. In the UK though, most tanks are made from plane, float glass so isn't usually a problem.

 

[andywg]

Thanks all for your advice. I'm leaning more than ever now towards a drilled sump.

One problem I have is that I haven't yet found a good site to explain to complete novice quite how the principle of he drilled tank works - in particular how to set up the hole and weir to minimise noise and to reduce the possibility of the contents of the tank going on a holiday to the living room carpet...

Again, any advice would be cool. B)

Ste2k3 - do you happen to know of anyone in the Southend area who is reputable for drilling? It's a long shot but I always try to go for recommended peeps. Also, do you happen to know of a good supplier of drill bits?

laters

Andy

 

[ste2k3]

Not sure of any supplyers of drill bits but I would get someone to drill it for you. normally £10-15 per hole. not to sure of any LFS's which could do it at southend. which lFS's are near you?

see the general reefs section, posted a topic about sumps there as I can upload a couple of diagrams there.

ste

 

[Navarre]

Here are a few very basic designs and types of drilled tanks. There are many variations to all of the ones shown here of course. These dont show any methods to quoeten noise caused but can be easily added to most of these designs.

This is a pipe diagram for a "Mini wier" setup. Again this is not the only way it can be done but i hope it gives a few ideas.

And lastly, this is a design for a Mineral mud type sump.

Hope these are of some use to you.