Sulking Angel - Must Be Sick!

[ariadne]

Ok.

I have an 85 litre planted tank. Just got it settled a few months ago after 2 months of teething problems! Inhabitants are 2 gouramis, 1 dwarf gourami, 1 angel and 1 bristlenose catfish. There are lots of plants in the water and lately I have noticed a few small cone shelled snails.

Today I noticed that the angel is hiding amongst the plants near the heater. I cannot see anything wrong with it, except it has a few tiny black spots on it's side (it has black stripes and I can't remember seeing the spots before). A few weeks ago my smaller angel suddenly up and died with no warning and was then eaten by the others

Anyway, my question, what should I do?

There are no additives in the tank....I added aqua salt months ago when my gourami's kept dying due to uncycled tank (so the salt is likely still in there but it wasn't in a high concentration). I read that snails can introduce bacteria, but I believe these snails I have been breeding in the tank for some time. No new fish.

I have tested the water and have 0 ammonia, my pH is around 7 and my temp is 27 degrees. Dont have nitrate or nitrite tests, but my tank is established and there are 5 big plants in there so I am thinking the levels should be low. I do 20-25% water changes weekly. The gouramis do not bother the angel.

I have some broad spectrum antibacterial/fungal, but am afraid to use it until I know exactly what is wrong with Mr Angel. What I have is called Promethylasul and has mafenide hydrochloride, aminacrine hydrochloride and malachite green in it. Is it wise to catch whatever this is early, or to wait until more symptoms show?


Thanks in advance guys.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

ok two problems i can see straight off, at 21 us gallons your tanks nowhere near big enough for 'regular' sized gourami's or angels. secondly angels need a mature tank, not just cycled but you need to wait 6 months before adding them to a tank. the water params won't be stable enough for them which is why they keep dying.

you either need to get a bigger tank (minimum 40gals and 18" tall for the angel, similar size but without the height requirements for the gourami's) or return the fish to the lfs.

unfortunately if you keep the angel it's likely to be a constant struggle while the tank matures, he'll probably get ill several times and therefore there is a high chance of him dying.

i really would advise returning him to the store or giving him to someone with a suitably sized mature tank if possible

 

[ariadne]

ok two problems i can see straight off, at 21 us gallons your tanks nowhere near big enough for 'regular' sized gourami's or angels. secondly angels need a mature tank, not just cycled but you need to wait 6 months before adding them to a tank. the water params won't be stable enough for them which is why they keep dying.

you either need to get a bigger tank (minimum 40gals and 18" tall for the angel, similar size but without the height requirements for the gourami's) or return the fish to the lfs.

unfortunately if you keep the angel it's likely to be a constant struggle while the tank matures, he'll probably get ill several times and therefore there is a high chance of him dying.

i really would advise returning him to the store or giving him to someone with a suitably sized mature tank if possible

Noone told me that about the gouramis OR the angels. What will happen if I keep them...will they stay small like goldfish do or just get overcrowded and die? Do you advise adding the antibacterial? Tank has been stable now for about 2 months.

Edit: my tank is about 18 inches tall. Exactly actually. It is a very tall tank. Does this help me?

Thanks.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

the whole 'fish grow to the size of the tank' thing is a pretty common misconception really.

while fish will stop growing when the tank becomes too small (sometimes, some willl literally keep growing until they can no longer move, although they'd usually die long before this) this is called stunting. it's very dangerous and will drastically reduce the fish's lifespan and cause all sorts of problems.

a well cared for goldfish can reach a foot long and live for 40 years if cared for well. when you hear of people saying they kept a goldie and he stayed small and lived for 4 years it may sound good but this is actually a tiny fraction of it's lifespan and it's almost certainly died from cramped conditons and the problems that go with it.

abuse by ignorance is still abuse.

if you keep them it's hard to say precisley what problems will occur, however you'll battle health problems throughout their lives, they will never attain a decent size and will undoubtedly die prematurley. You could easily get gourami's and angels to live for 7-10 years if cared for well, in a 20gal i'd give them maybe 2/3 years. I'm sure that's not what you want for your fish so I'd really strongly advise you to get a bigger tank or return them to the lfs, while you are there give the lfs a right telling off for selling you unsuitable fish, loudly and in front of other customers if possible as others should know not to follow their advice.

a tall 20gal is still 20gals i'm afraid. it gives the height needed but then not the length.

 

[ariadne]

the whole 'fish grow to the size of the tank' thing is a pretty common misconception really.

while fish will stop growing when the tank becomes too small (sometimes, some willl literally keep growing until they can no longer move, although they'd usually die long before this) this is called stunting. it's very dangerous and will drastically reduce the fish's lifespan and cause all sorts of problems.

a well cared for goldfish can reach a foot long and live for 40 years if cared for well. when you hear of people saying they kept a goldie and he stayed small and lived for 4 years it may sound good but this is actually a tiny fraction of it's lifespan and it's almost certainly died from cramped conditons and the problems that go with it.

abuse by ignorance is still abuse.

if you keep them it's hard to say precisley what problems will occur, however you'll battle health problems throughout their lives, they will never attain a decent size and will undoubtedly die prematurley. You could easily get gourami's and angels to live for 7-10 years if cared for well, in a 20gal i'd give them maybe 2/3 years. I'm sure that's not what you want for your fish so I'd really strongly advise you to get a bigger tank or return them to the lfs, while you are there give the lfs a right telling off for selling you unsuitable fish, loudly and in front of other customers if possible as others should know not to follow their advice.

a tall 20gal is still 20gals i'm afraid. it gives the height needed but then not the length.

Just noticed that the angel's poo is white. Do we know what made it sick?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

white poo is a sign of internal parasites

need a strong med for it, being in a new tank will not help with treatment.

look up ionternal parasites and flubenol which i think is the appropriate medication, sorry but i don't fancy his chances tbh