substrate color?? guppy color questions

Sgooosh

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Hello i have 2 questions
i have a lot of guppies as you all know
but they do not seem to be the most colorful and the females develop color really slow, how can i make it so that the guppies have brighter colors? what can i feed them?

also the substrate in teh tank is black whenever i add a new cory in they start darkening, the oldest bronze cories are almost as dark as a black venezuelan

currently i have some spotted cory and bronze maybe emerald cory (both sold as Green Cory idk)
can i add Panda cory i found them for cheap
 

Byron

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To the issue of fish colour, several factors are involved. A good diet is one but only one, and I do not put any reliance in so-called colour enhancing fish foods. Others may have more to offer. I just keep an eye on lighting (this is probably the single most important factor, as bright light is anathema to forest fish), use floating plants in all tanks, and keep the substrate darker.

On the substrate colour issue...this is why black is nearly if not equally as bad as pure white. Fish are affected. I noticed the same several years ago, especially with C. panda and C. similis when I put them in a tank with black sand; when I decided to change all the substrates to sand, I went with the dark grey mix of Quikrete Play Sand, which I believe is the happy medium. It is dark but not black. The background colours of my several species of Corydoras appear so far as I can tell to be relatively normal.

Ian Fuller says black is more of an issue for cories than some realize, and recommends against it.

C. panda is likely to spawn with nearly any other cory species (lineage here takes something of a back seat, there is another reason) but so long as you do not allow any surviving fry to enter the hobby (hybrids such as might occur here are verboten!) it is your choice. C. panda does appreciate a bit more water current, and cool-ish temperatures, so this might be incompatible depending upon the other fish (no problem for the cories mentioned).
 

JennySolano

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To the issue of fish colour, several factors are involved. A good diet is one but only one, and I do not put any reliance in so-called colour enhancing fish foods. Others may have more to offer. I just keep an eye on lighting (this is probably the single most important factor, as bright light is anathema to forest fish), use floating plants in all tanks, and keep the substrate darker.

On the substrate colour issue...this is why black is nearly if not equally as bad as pure white. Fish are affected. I noticed the same several years ago, especially with C. panda and C. similis when I put them in a tank with black sand; when I decided to change all the substrates to sand, I went with the dark grey mix of Quikrete Play Sand, which I believe is the happy medium. It is dark but not black. The background colours of my several species of Corydoras appear so far as I can tell to be relatively normal.

Ian Fuller says black is more of an issue for cories than some realize, and recommends against it.

C. panda is likely to spawn with nearly any other cory species (lineage here takes something of a back seat, there is another reason) but so long as you do not allow any surviving fry to enter the hobby (hybrids such as might occur here are verboten!) it is your choice. C. panda does appreciate a bit more water current, and cool-ish temperatures, so this might be incompatible depending upon the other fish (no problem for the cories mentioned).
Wait! Are you saying the cories do an adaptive camouflage thing & change to match their substate? Mine are albino on a black subtrate.
 

Byron

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Wait! Are you saying the cories do an adaptive camouflage thing & change to match their substate? Mine are albino on a black subtrate.

In a sense, but it is a negative not a positive, according to Ian. So it is like a stressor. Similar to the fish in a bare store tank being "washed out" (this certainly applies to cories as well as upper fish). It is not a good thing for the fish. With cories, they expect to blend in with the substrate (which is sand in 95%+ of their habitats) and their background colour/tone tends to reflect this need. So by darkening, as much as lightening, they are reacting to a stressful situation about the only way they can, in the hopes they will be less conspicuous than not reacting. But unlike a fish that can change its colouration significantly and naturally, as it moves from substrate "a" to "b", here it is a stress response.
 

JennySolano

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Interesting, but don‘t albinos lack certain pigmentation alleles? As to other colors, I am more inclined to think coloration changes would take generations. So you’re basically saying temporary changes caused by stress that are reversible?
 
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Sgooosh

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To the issue of fish colour, several factors are involved. A good diet is one but only one, and I do not put any reliance in so-called colour enhancing fish foods. Others may have more to offer. I just keep an eye on lighting (this is probably the single most important factor, as bright light is anathema to forest fish), use floating plants in all tanks, and keep the substrate darker.

On the substrate colour issue...this is why black is nearly if not equally as bad as pure white. Fish are affected. I noticed the same several years ago, especially with C. panda and C. similis when I put them in a tank with black sand; when I decided to change all the substrates to sand, I went with the dark grey mix of Quikrete Play Sand, which I believe is the happy medium. It is dark but not black. The background colours of my several species of Corydoras appear so far as I can tell to be relatively normal.

Ian Fuller says black is more of an issue for cories than some realize, and recommends against it.

C. panda is likely to spawn with nearly any other cory species (lineage here takes something of a back seat, there is another reason) but so long as you do not allow any surviving fry to enter the hobby (hybrids such as might occur here are verboten!) it is your choice. C. panda does appreciate a bit more water current, and cool-ish temperatures, so this might be incompatible depending upon the other fish (no problem for the cories mentioned).
they seem very happy in the black substrate... it is too big for me to change
there's many potato-like rocks in there
i have lots of flow and the spotted cories seem fine (cool water)
yeah it is true the floaters are blocking a LOT of light

why are hybrids verboten?
are they unhealthy or something?
 

Byron

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Interesting, but don‘t albinos lack certain pigmentation alleles? As to other colors, I am more inclined to think coloration changes would take generations. So you’re basically saying temporary changes caused by stress that are reversible?

I wasn't thinking of albinos when I posted previously, it was more of a general comment on normal cories. I've never kept albino cories but as you have, do they darken over black?

I do know it is reversible. My group of panda cories was in the 70g which at the time had a dark (basically black/grey/white/tan mix) substrate and the cories were without question darker. Several months later I moved the tanks to another room I had been working on, and used a tan combo (tan/white/black) substrate for this tank. I did notice the pandas were now more beige and the three black blotches were more vivid. A few years later I decided to try straight black, and after the cories were returned they again had a definite black shadow, something like a cloudy charcoal shading across their sides.

Fish (and amphibians) possess specialized cells called melanophores that contain hundreds of melanin-filled pigment granules, termed melanosomes. The sole function of these cells is pigment aggregation in the center of the cell or dispersion throughout the cytoplasm, thus altering the shade of colour. But the fish can also adjust the melanosomes voluntarily in response to environmental stimuli, stress, and social interactions. Fish in the store tank often appear pale, or after being netted and bagged will often be without any colour. Fish kept in brightly-lit tanks will frequently exhibit much less intense colouration. In all these cases, this “washed out” appearance is a natural response caused by high stress. [This para excerpted from my article on Light.]

Ian says it is a detrimental factor on the cories.
 

Byron

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why are hybrids verboten?
are they unhealthy or something?

Biologically, there are two types of hybrid. The first is a true hybrid resulting from the breeding of two fish from different taxa. A hybrid from species in two different genera is termed intergeneric. A hybrid from different species within the same genus is termed interspecific, or a cross. A hybrid from different subspecies within a genus is termed intra-specific. While it is very rare, a hybrid from fish of different families is termed interfamilial. The second type is strictly speaking not a true hybrid but is very common. These are crosses between different populations, breeds or cultivars within the same species, in order to produce a fish with specific characteristics. The cory issue under discussion is an interspecific hybrid as defined in the fore-going {genera and lineage are the same here].

I am citing verbatim Ian Fuller's view on hybrids, simply because he says it clearly and I (along with most if not all of the scientific community) am in complete agreement.

In nature some species do occasionally cross, especially at a time when severe conditions bring species together that would not normally be found in the same place. This is known in science as speciating. In the Hobby the species would have to be purposely put together and that would create unnatural crosses, and then we would end up with these hybrids expanding into the hobby and ultimately spoiling the two crossed species.​
There are probably in excess of 300 naturally occurring Corydoradinae species, many of which are in danger of becoming extinct in their natural homes and I would like to see efforts being made to preserve these species. I realize that it will be an almost impossible task to try and reinstate aquarium bred specimens back into their natural homes, mainly because these are being or have been destroyed. It is possible however to maintain these species in aquaria and that is what I would like to see. To this end a new data base of registered keepers/breeders has been established on the web site.​
I am not going to allow this to be a drawn out discussion. I do not agree with hobby or commercially produced hybrids so such discussions here are banned.​
 

JennySolano

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I have no idea who this Ian is. Will google.

No color changes. The same pale gold. The Black Diamond sand was included in a secondhand betta tank that came with lotsa stuff. I used it with the cories to make them pop. And they do look cool against the dark sand. The betta is doing well too. He’s a deep fuchsia color with white tipped fins. Pretty boy.
 

Byron

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I have no idea who this Ian is. Will google.

No color changes. The same pale gold. The Black Diamond sand was included in a secondhand betta tank that came with lotsa stuff. I used it with the cories to make them pop. And they do look cool against the dark sand. The betta is doing well too. He’s a deep fuchsia color with white tipped fins. Pretty boy.

Ian Fuller, an acknowledged authority on the Corydoradinae, and he owns CorydorasWorld and he established the CW numbering for "new" species that are awaiting description.
 
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Sgooosh

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Biologically, there are two types of hybrid. The first is a true hybrid resulting from the breeding of two fish from different taxa. A hybrid from species in two different genera is termed intergeneric. A hybrid from different species within the same genus is termed interspecific, or a cross. A hybrid from different subspecies within a genus is termed intra-specific. While it is very rare, a hybrid from fish of different families is termed interfamilial. The second type is strictly speaking not a true hybrid but is very common. These are crosses between different populations, breeds or cultivars within the same species, in order to produce a fish with specific characteristics. The cory issue under discussion is an interspecific hybrid as defined in the fore-going {genera and lineage are the same here].

I am citing verbatim Ian Fuller's view on hybrids, simply because he says it clearly and I (along with most if not all of the scientific community) am in complete agreement.

In nature some species do occasionally cross, especially at a time when severe conditions bring species together that would not normally be found in the same place. This is known in science as speciating. In the Hobby the species would have to be purposely put together and that would create unnatural crosses, and then we would end up with these hybrids expanding into the hobby and ultimately spoiling the two crossed species.​
There are probably in excess of 300 naturally occurring Corydoradinae species, many of which are in danger of becoming extinct in their natural homes and I would like to see efforts being made to preserve these species. I realize that it will be an almost impossible task to try and reinstate aquarium bred specimens back into their natural homes, mainly because these are being or have been destroyed. It is possible however to maintain these species in aquaria and that is what I would like to see. To this end a new data base of registered keepers/breeders has been established on the web site.​
I am not going to allow this to be a drawn out discussion. I do not agree with hobby or commercially produced hybrids so such discussions here are banned.​
yeah... i hope they do not go extinct such fascinating little guys

I have no idea who this Ian is. Will google.

No color changes. The same pale gold. The Black Diamond sand was included in a secondhand betta tank that came with lotsa stuff. I used it with the cories to make them pop. And they do look cool against the dark sand. The betta is doing well too. He’s a deep fuchsia color with white tipped fins. Pretty boy.
corydorasworld
 

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