Stumped On Fishless Cycle

[minxfishy]

Hi all, hope someone can give me an insight as to what is going wrong with my fishless cycle.  Ive done plenty in the past and all have gone the usual way, but this one is confusing me.
 
Set up the tank (90L) over 3 weeks ago, the only things in the tank are water, black gravel and a large piece of redmoor root wood.  Filter Fluval U3.
 
Tank temp 80f ph over 7.6 on normal test, 7.4 on high range test.
 
Added enough ammonia to get 4ppm on API test kit on day one, after 48 hrs the ammonia was 0ppm, nitrIte off the scale (which I found very unusual, never had a cycle start that quickly), so added more ammonia up to 4ppm and tested daily, ammonia stayed at 4ppm for a week, nitrIte went down to 0ppm.  Ph never changed, but because the ammonia just stopped processing, did a full w/c. 
 
After w/c added ammonia back to 4ppm, again within 2 days, ammonia all gone, nitrIte right up again, then after adding ammonia back to 4ppm, it just stopped again and this is where it has stayed, with clean fresh water it quickly processes ammonia and nitrIte rises, but after 2 days, just seems to stop, the temp stays the same, the ph stays the same.  So now coming up to 4 weeks, the cycle just isnt working.  I dont know the gh/kh of the water, dont have a kit for this, but on the water company website (essex and suffolk water) says the water is Very Hard. 
 
Im thinking do another full w/c and re-dose to 4ppm and see what happens, but Im pretty sure, after the initial start, it will stall again.  I know low ph will stall the cycle, but my ph hasnt moved.  I think soft water might also stall it, but again, my water is allegedly very hard.  What is going wrong here??
 
Also, added a brand new Eheim 2213 to tank on Wednesday alongside the Fluval U3 in a desperate bid to get the cycle moving again.
 
Any advice welcome, unfortunately having just moved here 6 weeks ago, dont know anyone close with mature media, otherwise would have used some, also Im using kleenoff household ammonia.

 

[minxfishy]

Can anyone help?
 
I did a full w/c, fully dechlorinated, temp up to 79f, added 4ppm ammonia, next day, ammonia down to 0.5ppm, nitrItes up to 2ppm, two days later, ammonia stopped processing, nitrIte disappearing (because no ammonia is being processed), ph has not moved, does anyone have any clue as to why this keeps happening??

 

[Mervin]

After about 3 weeks, my small 10 gallon tank still hadn't processed any ammonia, I managed to obtain some gravel from an already established tank and it kick started it for me. Now the ammonia is dropping within 24 hours but the nitrites are still off the chart, i've been waiting a couple weeks so far...
 
I also have a larger 35 gallon tank and I added the gravel to that one, it started to process the ammonia within 2 days.. still no nitrites though..
 
I read that aquarium lights slow the bacteria down, are your lights on?
 
You mentioned you just moved house, where do you live?

 

[minxfishy]

No lights on, now living in Suffolk.

 

[Mervin]

I'm in Yorkshire otherwise might have been able to get you some established gravel/filter. Lazy bacteria? I'd recommend asking your lfs for a bag of gravel to kick start it. I'm sure they wouldn't mind, it's in their interest afterall. Over 2 weeks and my nitrites havn't shown the slightest hint of dropping.

 

[the_lock_man]

What I'd suggest is reset again by doing a water change, do your first 4ppm ammonia dose, wait for the ammonia to hit 0.
 
Then only dose up to 2ppm, and see whether your A-bacs can handle the reduced level.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I like the thinking lock_man has, but I'd suggest only dosing to 2ppm in the first place.  Stick with a smaller dose and see if it can handle that.  If it moves forward, then just keep ticking away at 2ppm, and consider a smaller initial stocking.

 

[minxfishy]

Well I gave up on adding ammonia, whilst it did the 4ppm quickly after a full w/c, it then just doesnt process anything, not even 1-2ppm.  So a week ago, after reading loads on the net, I did another full w/c and added two large prawns, see if I could cycle it this way, a week on, nothing, the prawns are rotting and fluffy and not a trace of ammonia or nitrIte.  Surely ammonia should start to rise with rotting prawns in it?  I just give up, I dont know whats wrong with my water, but it doesnt want to cycle.  Temp btw is now 30c and I have massive amounts of fluffy brown algae.

 

[the_lock_man]

Well, yes, it should. But you've clearly got some bacteria there, as you have been processing ammonia, which then stops, and you have been processing nitrite. So it could be that all the ammonia being produced by the prawns, which would be a small contant stream, is being processed correctly.
 
You know, I'd be inclined to put a fish or two in there, and see how the filter copes with them.

 

[minxfishy]

To be honest, I was thinking I'd give it another week or so with the prawns, if nothing changes, then I would add a couple of fish and see what happens, obviously test daily and see how it goes.  Thanks.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Have you tested the nitrAte?  If the nitrate is increasing, then there's your answer. 

 

[minxfishy]

Hi, Zero NitrAte! Two weeks with rotting prawns and boy are they rotting, Zero Ammonia, Zero NitrIte and Zero NitrAte.  Ph still 7.6.  Temp still 30c.  Cant be right.  I know the API nitrAte test is notoriously unaccurate, but in all the years Ive kept fish, never have I had a Zero nitrAte test. 

 

[the_lock_man]

Hi, Zero NitrAte! Two weeks with rotting prawns and boy are they rotting, Zero Ammonia, Zero NitrIte and Zero NitrAte.  Ph still 7.6.  Temp still 30c.  Cant be right.  I know the API nitrAte test is notoriously unaccurate, but in all the years Ive kept fish, never have I had a Zero nitrAte test. 

 
No, absolutely that can't be right, unless your tank is stacked full of plants. I would certainly put that down to the API test.
 
If you want to be certain, try buying either a Nutrafin or a Salifert test for Nitrate, and see what that says, or indeed, see if your LFS would quickly do a nitrate test for you.
 
I still reckon you've got enough bacteria there to support some fish, though.

 

[minxfishy]

No plants at all.  Right now Im skint anyway, just got a new pup, so cant afford any fish lol, give it another couple of weeks then it has to be ready, also give me chance to clean up the serious fluffy brown algae problem I now have! Thanks

 

[Mamashack]

I have a bit of a conundrum in that my fishless cycle seems to have speeded up extremely quickly since 6am this morning when ammonia was 4ppm which it had been every day since I added it 6 days ago. I know you should wait for the ammonia to start dropping before testing for nitrites but I thought I'd give it a go. To my surprise nitrItes was somewhere between 2-5ppm (can't tell the difference tbh!) API master test kit, but it shows that something is happening. Could it be the mature gravel I added yesterday? Would it work so quickly?
At 10.30am, nitrAtes are 20-40ppm starting on day 1 at 5ppm and no water changes since I started the process. Checked the ammonia level again and it was 2ppm! Am now panicking in case the ammonia plummets drastically whilst I am at work (evening shift) and the bacteria stall. I will be away for 9 hours or so. Should I top it up to 4ppm again before I go to work or wait and see? I know that ammonia and nitrItes have to be able to be processed to 0 within 24hrs several times and nitrAtes should be off the scale. Then a huge water change before adding fish. I wasn't planning on stocking it so soon as thought the process would take weeks! Not days!
Once it's fully cycled what level of ammonia should I be trying for to keep it ticking over til I can stock it?