Stocking Suggestions Please :-)

[trista]

Would love some help from the experts!

I have a 20 gallon tank. Here's my water test results, for what it's worth:
Soft: very
KH: 300 ppm
pH: about 8

tank appears to be cycled now - nitrates, ammonia, and nitrites have been remained 0 since last water change several days ago.

Here's what's left in the tank now after my yellow danio killing spree (see emergency forum):
4 neons
3 mickey platy's. such sweet fish, i love platys
2 danios (glofish - 1 orange, 1 yellow)
2 black skirted tetras

I don't want anymore mean fish .

I like guppies, would they fit well in my tank? maybe more platy's? My neons and danios probably need more friends but wow, those yellow danios sure were mean.

anyway, suggestions are more than welcome!

Thanks!

 

[rdd1952]

First, I think your tank is pretty close to fully stocked. Based on the 1" per gallon guide, you have about 21" of adult fish. They aren't big waste producers but I wouldn't add any more fish unless it's to increase the school size of the tetras. Adding more livebearers like guppies will quickly lead to overstocking unless you have a plan for the fry.

I'm a little confused by your water parameters. While it isn't unheard of to have low GH and high KH, it is very unusual. Are you sure your test results for GH and KH are correct? What are your tap water parameters for GH, KH and pH? Is it possible something in your tank is pushing the KH and pH up?

 

[Puffdaddy]

Are you sure your nitrates are 0ppm, there should always be a trace present if not more. Having 0ppm nitrates would often suggest an un-cycled tank. Although you are also showing 0ppm in ammonia and nitrites. Are you using test strips or the liquid tests. Also are you sure your water is very soft? With Ph at 8 and Kh at 300 is most likely on the hard side, even though that isn't always true. Just some heads up. Now for your Q's, this is what I would do if I were you. Get 1-2 more Neons, 2-3 more Black skirts and 5 male Guppy's. After your tank has matured awhile and you have good filtration you can add some Cory's if you like.

EDIT: for typo

 

[trista]

I'm a little confused by your water parameters. While it isn't unheard of to have low GH and high KH, it is very unusual. Are you sure your test results for GH and KH are correct? What are your tap water parameters for GH, KH and pH? Is it possible something in your tank is pushing the KH and pH up?

No, it's the same coming out of the tap. We have a water softener, so maybe that's why. I turned it down by 75% a few days ago though so hopefully the GH will not be so low at some point. it's 0 now. It seems to take quite awhile for a change in the softener to cycle through the water system.

Well, I was hoping I wasn't fully stocked... the tank seems so... empty .

I see your point about the live bearer issue - and I don't want to deal w/ fry so I won't get any guppies. I would like to rebuild the tetra school.... the danios seem lonely now too, although I'm sure they're glad their yellow counterparts aren't going postal on them anymore.

Puffdaddy - i'm using test strips right now but have some of the liquid kind coming soon (um, i think that's what i ordered), and no, actually it's not at exactly zero, I think it's actually between 0 and .5, it's really hard to read the color on the strip but there is a touch of color, yes. At least I know the strips are working in some way, b/c I have seen it drop in the past week or so from 10 ppm to where it is now. I think it only JUST started to become cycled, b/c up until just recently the nitrites were spiking quite high.

Keep in mind I really don't know what I'm doing, i'm just trying really hard, so I appreciate all the advice

ETA, i'm heading to the LFS tomorrow so will take a sample of my water with me for more accurate testing

 

[rdd1952]

actually it's not at exactly zero, I think it's actually between 0 and .5, it's really hard to read the color on the strip but there is a touch of color, yes. At least I know the strips are working in some way, b/c I have seen it drop in the past week or so from 10 ppm to where it is now. I think it only JUST started to become cycled, b/c up until just recently the nitrites were spiking quite high.

Keep in mind I really don't know what I'm doing, i'm just trying really hard, so I appreciate all the advice

ETA, i'm heading to the LFS tomorrow so will take a sample of my water with me for more accurate testing

Nitrate should never drop in the tank (except as a result of a water change), only go up, unless it is very heavily planted and the plants are using it. The cycling process is that ammonia is transformed into nitrite which is transformed into nitrate which you remove ia water changes. Unless you have some type nitrate sponge in your filter nitrates will always be present and will always increase between water changes. They aren't toxic except at very high levels of 80 to 100 ppm or higher.

 

[trista]

Maybe the nitrates are low now because of recent heavy water changes? I was doing 50% twice a day up until a few days ago, b/c the nitrites were so terribly high. I stopped the water changes b/c the nitrites weren't rising anymore, and I keep checking to see if they will go up like they were before, but they haven't... Hmmm. I only have one real plant in the tank now. It's relatively large, but i don't know if it's so big it would reduce nitrates.

I'm in no rush to put more fish in anyway, so I can watch and wait to see what the water does. I like Puffdaddy's stocking suggestions tho

I finally found a fairly knowledgeable LFS and asked the fishkeeper there about the water softener (they are quite common around here) and she said it won't affect the fish but will kill the plants, which explains why all but one of my plants died. Obviously it seems to make the water chemistry a bit weird...

 

[Puffdaddy]

When taking a sample of water to be tested at your lfs, have them write down the results, just saying they are fine is unacceptable. When you get your liquid test solutions, your results will be much more accurate than the strips, which could be throwing you off a bit.

EDIT: I usually stay away from anything that messes with my water chemistry (ph and such). Stable Ph and hardness is much healthier for fish in the long run as oppose to always trying to make it perfect. Most fish will adapt just fine.

 

[rdd1952]

Get 1-2 more Neons, 2-3 more Black skirts and 5 male neons. After your tank has matured awhile and you have good filtration you can add some Cory's if you like.

I like Puffdaddy's stocking suggestions tho

Did you mean 5 male guppies? In my opinion, that will be too many fish for the tank unless it has good filtration (7x tank size at least) and a good maintenance schedule as that would mean there were 20 to 22 fish (5-6 each of neons and black skirts, 3 platys, 2 danios and 5 guppies) in the tank with some of them being livebearers (if the platys are females) producing fry. And then adding corys later would raise the total another 5 or 6 fish.

I finally found a fairly knowledgeable LFS and asked the fishkeeper there about the water softener (they are quite common around here) and she said it won't affect the fish but will kill the plants, which explains why all but one of my plants died. Obviously it seems to make the water chemistry a bit weird...

Ive never heard of a water softener killing plants but I guess the removal of the minerals in the water could cause that. It's also possible that the plants you had that died weren't true aquatic plants. A lot of places sell plants that maybe are aquatic plants but can't live submerged. A good rule of thumb is that if it has varigated leaves, it isn't an underwater plant.

 

[Puffdaddy]

Yes rdd1952 I did mean 5 male Guppies. I will fix. You may or may not already know but I don't hold any stock in the 1" of fish per gallon rule and I'm fully aware of your stance on the subject.

 

[trista]

rdd, I totally agree about the plants maybe not being aquatic, I really don't know what killed them all - it could have been a number of factors.

I will definitely ask for results of the tests at the LFS. Hopefully my new liquid tests will come soon as well.

Puff - I wouldn't do anything to change the current chemistry, but I can't turn off the water softener. The fish will just have to adapt to it, because I'm too selfish to adapt to not having it .

 

[rdd1952]

You may or may not already know but I don't hold any stock in the 1" of fish per gallon rule and I'm fully aware of your stance on the subject.

For experienced fishkeepers I don't think the 1" per gallon guide means anything either. I just think it is a good guide for newbies to keep them from getting in over their heads. My tanks are actually under 1' per gallon but that is mostly because the tanks and fish are doing so well that I really don't want to risk introducing some disease or parasite into the tank which is possible even if you do quarantine. When going to 2" plus per gallon though (and a lot of members here are at that or more with no problems at all), you need to definitely have good filtration and a good maintenance schedule as nitrates will build quickly.

 

[cs091]

No, it's the same coming out of the tap. We have a water softener, so maybe that's why. I turned it down by 75% a few days ago though so hopefully the GH will not be so low at some point. it's 0 now. It seems to take quite awhile for a change in the softener to cycle through the water system.

Personally I wouldn't drink water that comes through a water softener. We have one, but there should be at least one tap that supplies untreated water for drinking/cooking purposes. We have 2 - the cold tap in the kitchen and the outside tap in the garden.

Water softeners use salt to recharge the softening media and can increase the amount of salt in the water coming out. They aren't like reverse osmosis water treaters that remove impurities, they merely replace impurities that clog up your washer and make it so you need to use more soap - mainly carbonates and bicarbonates - with other impurities that don't cause these problems - such as chlorides, which aren't meant to be consumed.

Cathy