Starting New Saltwater Tank - Fish Only - Some Questions

[nike12301]

I have a 36 gallon tank that I'm converting to saltwater (first time). I had an in depth discussion about what I'll need with the owner of the local fish store (top quality place). He suggested starting off with live sand, 15-20 pounds of live rock and some lace rock, which will eventually become live with time. He also said that I shouldn't need a protein skimmer as long as I keep the livestock low (2-3 small guys at most).

I've done all that. Live rock is in the tank, live sand is in the tank, temperature is set at 80F. Ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are all zero. pH is 8.0.

The fish store guy said once it's all set up, I should have enough live rock not to worry about cycling. He said to wait just a couple days for everything to settle and then come back in to pick out a cleaning crew.

How can I be so sure that the tank is ready for livestock? The live rock did sit out for about two hours during the set up process. Should I add some drops of ammonia to see if it drops down to zero after a couple hours? I've cycled freshwater tanks before but never a started a saltwater tank with live rock, so I don't know how the cycle works in this case. I asked him if I should try some of that Tetra SafeStart and he said I probably wouldn't even need it considering the live rock and sand. Does this sound right? Any suggestions?

 

[woody88]

Hi mate! First rule! Take everything your lfs guy says with a pinch of salt. Remember they're on commission.

Secondly, is it cured live rock or uncured. If it's cured and was transported in water you may only get a mini cycle. If it Is uncured then depending on how much die off there was you will get a cycle which can take weeks.

Certainly more than 2 days. An indication that a tank has finished it's cycle is diatoms (brown patches) on rock and substrate.

With marine tanks you don't need to add fish or dose with ammonia as the LR will start the cycle.

You will need a good test kit to test for amm, trite and trate and ph.

When ph is 8.0-8.3 and ammonia and nitrite are zero then your tank has finished it's cycle.
do a large water change to bring nitrates down and you should be good to go.
Don't add anything to the tank until then.

I recommend you read the journals and the resource threads as they're full of the vital info needed in starting up and maintaining a marine tank.

Ps- I strongly recommend a skimmer as they're your main source if mechanical filtration.

You could also donwith running phosphate remover and carbon to reduce any possible algae growth.

Oh........and welcome to the salty side mate!

 

[lewiss]

Hello! And welcome!

Good to see another new marine man!! Or woman!!

+1 to Woody's comments! Is it cured or uncured? I think leave it at least a week even if it's cured and see if theres a cycle at all. If not just crack on.

Do you know what you want for your clean up crew? We can always help with suggestions if not!!

In regards to the skimmer, I don't skim but some swear by it. It probably will be ok but maybe worth skimming for a while until your happy with what your doing.

Ammonia is in my opinion the most crutial to keep at 0! So keep on top of it!!

Hope that helps?? Feel free to ask away any questions you may have!!

 

[jameshughes1989]

Hi and welcome to the salty side. As woody said dont always take your LFS advice as the truth, unfortuneatly more often than not a lot of the advice is a load of rubbish. The best thing to do is research any equipment/techniques/stock yourself or ask the guys on here. Non-biest Advice

Dont use Live Sand, it is not worth it. How live is it when it has been sitting in a bag for ages. After all your live rock will be your main form of filtration. Also make sure the rock is cured live rock, less waiting around and although it may cost you more IMO it will save you time and aggro.

Skimmer wise, some do, some dont. Its all personal preference but as a new person to the world of marines it may make it easier for you to skim. I swear by them but I have to because of the type of system I run.

Now the cycling, have you got test kits? You should see die off so ammonia will rise, then nitrite. Ammonia and Nitrite should then go to zero and your nitrate will rise. A big water change will be needed to bring your nitrate to a suitable level and then your good to go. Never just think the tank will cycle in a certain amount of time, the only way to know is to monitor them parameters daily. Hope that helps.


Cheers

 

[lewiss]

James raises a good point!! I didnt mean leave it leave it a wee!! test it daily!! You should see the levels he mentioned but if you don't after a week you will be fine to add. If it wasn't out the water long sometimes you barely get a cycle.

 

[seffieuk]

Seffie x

 

[nike12301]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I understand well how a cycle works... starting a freshwater tank from scratch at least. What I'm confused about is dropping the live rock in and then knowing whether there's a mini cycle taking place, a full cycle, etc. Right now, my ammonia, nitrites, nitrates are at zero. But what I'm asking is if I can even conclude anything meaningful at this point from those readings. Even in a tank without live rock and live sand, wouldn't my ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings by zero at this point? Even IF the live rock is fully functioning and I was fully cycled, wouldn't I get those readings of zero anyway since there's no livestock in the tank to produce the initial ammonia (and then nitrite and eventually nitrate)? That's why I asked about putting in some drops of ammonia. If I do that and all the readings are clear in a few hours, wouldn't that mean the bio filtration is all set?

(By the way, to answer the questions, the live rock came from a tank chock full of tons and tons of live rock... and it has plenty of feather dusters and some purple algae on it. So, from what I understand at this point, it's plenty cured or alive already.)

 

[jameshughes1989]

Hi, how long was the rock out of water for and how long has it been in the tank? When I picked mine up it was out of water for nearly an hour but I never had any die-off, therefore no cycle. If you are worried anout whether the tank is ready you can always drop in a fresh prawn and monitor parameters?

I would say that if the rock has been in the tank for more than a week and your ammonia and nitrite are zero then that suggests there is no die-off.

Hope that helps.

 

[woody88]

I agree. If it's come out of a curing tank with loads of other rock then it sounds cured to me.
Like suggested, drop a prawn in and leave it to decompose and if your amm, trite stay at zero (give it 24/48 hrs min) then your good for CUC, Buck!.....lol

You may still get diatoms in your tank as even when I've added cured LR in the past you do get the odd bit of brown but your CUC will take care of that in no time.

Any stocking plans. Fish/inverts ?

Ps where are the pics! C'mon, c'mon! Lol

 

[seffieuk]

But what I'm asking is if I can even conclude anything meaningful at this point from those readings. Even in a tank without live rock and live sand, wouldn't my ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings by zero at this point?

You are absolutely right

Even IF the live rock is fully functioning and was fully cycled, wouldn't I get those readings of zero anyway since there's no livestock in the tank to produce the initial ammonia (and then nitrite and eventually nitrate)?

The live rock produces the ammonia (or more correctly the things that have died in the live rock) as things die off, I must admit that if your rock was out of water for two hours I would have expected a little die off, causing a small cycle - so, leave for 48 hours and then test for ammonia and nitrItes, if you havent got any by then I doubt very much that you will get any cycle at all

That's why I asked about putting in some drops of ammonia. If I do that and all the readings are clear in a few hours, wouldn't that mean the bio filtration is all set?

Dont add anything to a marine tank if it is not needed - time will tell and patience is a virtue on the salty side

Seffie x

 

[nike12301]

But what I'm asking is if I can even conclude anything meaningful at this point from those readings. Even in a tank without live rock and live sand, wouldn't my ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings by zero at this point?

You are absolutely right

Even IF the live rock is fully functioning and was fully cycled, wouldn't I get those readings of zero anyway since there's no livestock in the tank to produce the initial ammonia (and then nitrite and eventually nitrate)?

The live rock produces the ammonia (or more correctly the things that have died in the live rock) as things die off, I must admit that if your rock was out of water for two hours I would have expected a little die off, causing a small cycle - so, leave for 48 hours and then test for ammonia and nitrItes, if you havent got any by then I doubt very much that you will get any cycle at all

That's why I asked about putting in some drops of ammonia. If I do that and all the readings are clear in a few hours, wouldn't that mean the bio filtration is all set?

Dont add anything to a marine tank if it is not needed - time will tell and patience is a virtue on the salty side

Seffie x

Thanks guys. Now I get it. I will monitor the parameters closely for a few days and then let you know!