Somethings Wrong!

[Lucieco]

Ok, I am new to keeping fish and so far have taken advice from the people I have bought the fish from (2 different stores) and I'm finding it increasingly stressful!

I have only had the fish for a week (1 male Siamese fighter, 2 Angel fish, 5 Neon Tetras, 4 Sunset Platys) and have been advised by the shop personnel that these are all fine together and they do appear to be.

But,

I lost 1 of the Angel fish after having it 3 days for no apparent reason, and today I came home and one of the tetras has died and all the others neons have all lost their colour and are acting different?? and to top it all off I have also noticed that my fighter's fan tail has started fraying?? (Stressed!)

Any ideas as to what is up??

 

[kim03333]

hi sorry to hear everything is stressing you out, but the members on here are very knowledgeable and we will give you help. however we will need more info, such as how did you cycle your tank? u say you've had the fish a week, but prior to getting them what did you do with the tank?

do you have a water test kit? do not use strips use liquid based ones. if you have tested your water what are the figures?

fighting fish generally do not fair well in a community his tail may be frayed due to it being nipped at by the other fish. be careful putting angels with neons. i wouldn't have thought it would be reccommended to put them together as angels are extremely likely to think of the neons as their dinner!!

i know for a fact neons are not a hardy species of fish and do not do well in new tanks but i don't know about the others. (i think plattys are quite hardy)

until we get more info i would suggest that you have poor water quality, particularly high in ammonia. the best thing you can do now is a water change. change at least 50% of the water in that tank (more if you want). also a water testing kit is essential. pick api or nutrafin (they are the best known brands i know of but there are probably others).

can you also tell us the size of your tank?

 

[Lucieco]

Thank you for getting back to me...

I've got a feeling I have been really naive here and the shops I've bought everthing from have taken one look at me and thought result!!

I got the tank the same time as the fish and nobody recommended any cycling (in fact I had never heard of it before... ) so I guess you could say I'm doing it now? The tank is 14 litres/3 gallons.

I am really feeling embarrassed now at my lack of knowledge but I don't have a testing kit either (how much do you think this will set me back?) I'm desparate not to loose anymore!

 

[scooterchick]

I know this isn't what you want to hear but the best thing to do would be to take the remaining fish back to the shop and do a fishless cycle, there are plenty of threads here advising how to do it.

What size is the tank? The fish the shop recommended you buy are completely unsuitable. Male siamese fighters should be kept alone in small tanks with little filtration, in the wild they live in still steady water and hate filters in tanks. They're also extremely aggresive and will not get on with the angels. Angels are also very skilled hunters and guess who is their prey? Yip, neon tetras are the natural food of angels and they'll be picked off one by one, there are people who've kept them successfully together but it's not the norm and you really don't want to take the chance.

A testing kit will cost about £20 I think? But it'll be cheaper in the long run than replacing all your fish.

 

[Corleone]

Thank you for getting back to me...

I've got a feeling I have been really naive here and the shops I've bought everthing from have taken one look at me and thought result!!

I got the tank the same time as the fish and nobody recommended any cycling (in fact I had never heard of it before... ) so I guess you could say I'm doing it now? The tank is 14 litres/3 gallons.

I am really feeling embarrassed now at my lack of knowledge but I don't have a testing kit either (how much do you think this will set me back?) I'm desparate not to loose anymore!

Ok, yes, you are in a cycle, and unfortunately, with the fish you have, you probably will be forever, or at least until they die or are rehomed.

The betta would be ok in a 3 gallon tank alone, maybe with a snail or a couple shrimp. Angelfish need at least a 30 gallon tank (it has to be 18 inches tall for them at full size), and they're not likely to survive a fish-in cycle. 5 neon tetras would be barely ok in the tank if it were cycled, but they're too active for cramped conditions and sensitive to poor water quality, so they do poorly in a cycle. In the unlikely chance the angelfish grow up, they may start eating the neons, as they're a natural prey item. The 4 platys would need about 5-10 gallons on their own. If you have a mix of males and females, you could get overwhelmed with fry in almost any size tank.

I advise returning all the fish except the betta - there's a pretty short list of fish that are suitable for a 3 gallon tank, and bettas dominate that list. Get yourself a liquid test kit (not strips - less accurate and much more expensive in the long run) that covers ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate at least. The API Freshwater Master kit is one of the most common. Not sure about UK prices, they're around $30 in the US, but are much cheaper online (you probably can't afford the wait for delivery, though)

Once you have a suitable stocking and a test kit, this thread will give you information on saving what you have left:
http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...eady-have-fish/


Don't be embarrassed that the store took you for a ride. It's pretty much par for the course - they're selling fish, not advice.

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

As a general guideline: expect petshop personnel to have little to no knowledge about aquarium fish unless proven otherwise. Think about what a retail store pays... it's not enough to keep real experts on staff. Sure there are serious hobbyists who will take full or part-time positions at pet stores...but to most people it's a job, not a career, so they learn the minimum to get by at their job. Also, pet shop labels aren't always correct either.

On-line resources like forums are the best way to get relevant information, and never trust just one opinion because what works for one person may be an uncommon situation. Look for as much information as you can get your hands on!

Lesson 1: Research any fish you're thinking of adding to your tank:
- Part a: Just because it's tiny when you buy it...
Some fish get sold when they are very small (partially because fewer people would buy them if they could actually see how big they get when full grown)...and grow up to be huge. Angels are a good example. You buy them when they are inch long...and their bodies can be larger than the palm of my hand when adults. They need a tank at least 18 inches tall. Plecos? Yeah the common plec gets sold at about 2-3inches around here...and can grow up to 2 feet in length.

- Part b: Just because it stays small doesn't mean a small tank is okay...
Some fish are really active, and if you keep them in a very small tank it can cause stress...which leads to a depressed immune system...which means it's easier for them to get sick and die.

- Part c: Not all fish are compatible with each other, some have special requirements, etc

Lesson 2: Tanks need to cycle...
Cycling is the process in which a colony of waste consuming bacteria grow in the filter. This generally takes 4-6 weeks, and during that time the waste products of your fish are polluting the water and poisoning your fish. This is why we recommend "fish-less cycling"...you don't have to worry about your fish getting sick from pollution because you don't add fish until the cycle is complete and the tank is stable.

Lesson 3: Bigger tanks are better...
If you are new to the hobby, even though it seems kinda silly to put a lot of money into a larger tank you're actually more likely to be successful starting out with a bigger tank. Larger volumes of water are more stable (both chemically and temperature wise), and give you more options on what types of fish you can keep.

Lesson 4: Proper maint. is the key to happy fish!
Once your tank has been cycled, doing weekly water changes (at least 20% of the tank volume) helps to keep your water chemistry stable, and the water clean for your pets. Good, clean water not only helps prevent algae, but will also help to ensure that your fish are colorful, active, and healthy!

There are several pinned topics on this forum that are all valuable resources for the absolute beginner, and of course we are here to help if you have any questions!

 

[Lucieco]

Thanks so much for all your replies, really appreciated.

I am going to change the water today and will probably take quite a lot out but am I ok to leave the fish in there with only about 50% of the water in there? while I'm changing it. also I bought this conditioning fluid (that was recommended by the shop??) to neutralise the chlorine in the water? am I to continue using this?

I am going to re-home the Angel fish with my Nephew (well sister!) but i lost another neon lastnight (I don't think it was attacked cos it was still in there - I fished it out this morning - but it had 1 eye missing? as did the other one that died the other day... is that normal?) I don't think the shop will take the remaining 3 back cos they are pale? so am I able to keep the others in there if I take the Angel out (to prevent it preying on the neons) I am looking to get a bigger tank but this will have to wait until payday now will they be ok for a little bit longer?

I know it sounds like I have done no reasearch whatsoever but I initially was only going to get the fighter so looked up info on that but it was on its own in the shop and I thought it looked lonely (if thats possible!) so asked all these questions to the shop assistant as to if I can have others with it and she said it would be fine in a community tank. And even when I got the other fish, the assistant knew they were all going in together and with a fighter and they said it would be fine. I asked about what to feed them, the water, compatability etc and was told none of them needed anything special. I think I was a bit over zealous in my fish buying...

Oh yeah and from what I have seen, the fighter keeps himself to himself but I don't understand how his fan tail has become frayed and messy and shorter in places (It was fine when I got him)

 

[mark.w.jones]

Your betta is likely to have had his tail nipped by the other fish. This and the fact that they are such poor swimmers that they struggle to compete for food are 2 of the main reasons for not keeping them in a community tank. Neon are well reknowned for being very flakey in newly set up tanks. I do not normally recommend getting neons until your tank has been set up for at least a few months as they are very sensitive to water conditions. All you can really do at the moment is get the test kit as recommended to test your ammonia and nitrite levels. You will probably also need to do daily water changes for a while to dilute your levels of ammonia and nitrite until the bacteria which "eat" them grow in sufficient numbers in your filter. Don't buy any new fish for a while. Stabilise what you have by keeping up the water changes for a bit and read through all the pinned artcles in this forum and the tropical discussion. A few of them are linked in my signature, but there is a wealth of good info. there that will help improve your knowledge. This is a great hobbie and many of us here joined through making exactly the same mistakes as you have.

to tff by the way

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

I am going to change the water today and will probably take quite a lot out but am I ok to leave the fish in there with only about 50% of the water in there? while I'm changing it. also I bought this conditioning fluid (that was recommended by the shop??) to neutralise the chlorine in the water? am I to continue using this?

To answer your questions:
- Yes, you can leave the fish in the tank while doing water changes as long as they can still swim freely. Since your tank is quite small, try to keep the new water close in temperature to the tank water.

- As for the water conditioner, the simple answer is: Yes, you should continue to use the water conditioner with every water change because chlorine and chloramine kills filter bacteria. The more complex answer is this: If your local water municipal uses chlorine, you can leave a bucket of water out overnight and the chlorine will evaporate. If your local water municipal uses chloramine, you must use a water conditoner that removes both chlorine and chloramines (not all do), because chloramines do not evaporate.