Some Angel Tank Setup Questions

[haleystropicalfish]

I don't actually have the tank for my to-be-angels yet, but I'm watching the classifieds. Here are some questions that I need answers too.

How many spong filters will I need for a 29-30 gallon tank?

How much does a bottle of pure ammonia cost? (in american dollors please)

Is it okay if the tank is near a curtained window? I almost never get direct sun through that window but still.

If I plan to have 1 breeding pair in my 29-30 gallon tank and leave the young in there, is it better to have gravel and plants or not? If so, what kind of gravel/plants?

And also a question about the angels themselves:

How often will they spawn and will they let the tank get overcrouded before the young are ready to go to new homes?

 

[Tolak]

It depends on the size of the sponge, the ones I make are a 4" to 5" cube, one is plenty for a 29 gallon with a pair.

About a dollar.

The problems with light are algae, and if you expect angels to parent raise a bit dimmer tank works better.

No substrate. Gravel holds a ton of filth, angel fry need very clean conditions. Once the eggs become wigglers they tend to fall off of whatever object the parents spawned on. The parents will try to retrieve them whenever possible, with a substrate this is not possible.

Angels generally spawn every 7 to 14 days, though I've seen them spawn every 5 days, to as long as every 21 days. You will not be able to raise them to sellable size in the same tank as the adults, though parent raising tends to slow down the frequency of spawning. They may spawn a second time without starting to eat the first batch of fry, if they feel the new spawn is threatened in any way they will eat the older spawn. You are also talking about starting with 200+ fry, this may dwindle to 100, as parenting angels do a good job of culling. 100 dime size angels need 50 gallons to develop properly, nickel size need 100 gallons. This obviously won't work in a 29-30 gallon tank.

 

[haleystropicalfish]

You have got to be kidding me. I can not get a 100 gallon tank for every spawn!!! That rediculous. They'll have to crowd if that's what it takes.

 

[Tolak]

No, I am not kidding you, and no, it is not ridiculous. Here's a standard angel-stocking chart;

Newly free swimming fry 40 fry per gallon
Two-week-old fry 20 fry per gallon
Month old fry 10 fry per gallon
Pea size bodies 3 fish per gallon
Dime size bodies 2 fish per gallon
Nickel size bodies 1 fish per gallon
Quarter size bodies 1 fish per 2 gallons
Silver Dollar size bodies 1 fish per 3 gallons
Potential breeders 1 fish per 5 gallons
Show Specimens 1 fish per 10 gallons
One breeding pair 20 gallon high tank


They do not all have to be in one tank, I started with a breeding pair in a 29, and six used 20-gallon tanks. I would pull one spawn, grow it out, sell them off, and then pull another. By overcrowding you will grow out unsellable fish, with clipped dorsals, bent ventrals, and improperly large eyes for their body. As they get larger in overcrowded conditions it gets worse, with body deformities, with can get really nasty in extreme cases. This is totally defeating the work behind breeding fish, unless you have a large hungry fish that needs lots of clean feeders.

Instead of looking for one large tank, look at sites like Aquabid for several smaller tanks. I lucked out with the 20's when a local discus breeder was in the process of upgrading from 20's to 29's, and was selling used 20's for $12 each. I built racks myself, and took any profit made & put it back into the fishroom. Buy used, build it yourself whenever possible, and anything you can't build or find used search the Internet for the cheapest price. Think outside the box is a really overused phrase, but one that really applies.

Here's a recent pic of my last two tanks I set up, which aren't tanks at all, they're 150 gallon Rubbermaid livestock troughs. They were $75 used; I picked up 7 of them, sold 4 to cover my gas. The back one is up & running, the one in the front will be set up this weekend.

The discus breeder, who is nearly 80 years old, bough army surplus folding bathtubs years back for growout. One lfs owner started in his parent's basement with the inside liners of junk refrigerators, sealed up with silicone. Totally unconventional, but it's what works if you are on a budget.

When you are selling fish, nobody sees your gear; they only see your fish.

 

[ArauraDiscus]

I grew 100 absolutely beautfiul angelfish fry to the size of a 50 cent coin in a 35 gallon tank. I didn't have a single death and not one fry needed to be culled from deformities. 35 is all my angelfish get and they seem to grow up happily, however if there seems to be too many, once the become big enough, I'll put them in community tanks to relieve the bioload.

Your fine with what you have if thats all you can have, but if you have way too many, you will need to cull fry.

 

[Tolak]

I grew 100 absolutely beautfiul angelfish fry to the size of a 50 cent coin in a 35 gallon tank. I didn't have a single death and not one fry needed to be culled from deformities. 35 is all my angelfish get and they seem to grow up happily, however if there seems to be too many, once the become big enough, I'll put them in community tanks to relieve the bioload.

Your fine with what you have if thats all you can have, but if you have way too many, you will need to cull fry.

So you're saying you have excellent results with somewhere around 8 times what is considered the standard stocking rate. I can not picture that many fish of that size shoehorned into a tank that small. I also find it very hard to believe that you had no deaths, and no culling.

Please explain in detail your filtration, feeding, maintenance, and anything else pertaining to how you accomplish this. There are thousands of angel breeders who would like to know how this is possible, and you could make quite a name for yourself in the aquatics community.

 

[Tolak]

http/www.angelsplus.com/Breeding2.htm

I've talked at length with Steve, I'm sure he would like to know how you do this.

http/webrbiz.com/angelfish/amh.html

This gentleman has been doing this for many years, his website is a good starting point for anyone breeding angels. Check out his stocking rates, as well as what he suggests for starting a micro hatchery.

I really hate to see anyone start out with breeding angels, and have a difficult time because they are trying to pull off something that seasoned veterans would not even consider. The internet is a huge place, with plenty of info regarding breeding angels, start looking around at stocking rates. I myself will, and have at times, double these pretty much standard accepted stocking rates. I am also scrambling to either set up more tanks, or sell angels, often well below the normal local price, for the sake of the fish.

 

[PoPoV]

Well said Tolak. People under estimate the sheer scale and responsiblity that breeding takes.